interview with Mike Michalowicz

Mike Michalowicz: The Business Owner’s Secret Weapon

Welcome to Boostly Podcast Episode 492. In this podcast episode we're talking to author of Clockwork, Mike Michalowicz about the new book which is Clockwork, revised and expanded as well as some sneak previews into the additions to the new book.

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Timestamps (audio)

00:00 – Introduction
01:33 – Why did Mike decide to do a revised version of the book now?
06:08 – The Clockwork books 5 D’s
14:20 – The additional T, Treasure
21:02 – Why was there a 4 year gap and what advice did Mike wish he had received?

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Audio – Boostly Podcast




Transcript from the Episode

[00:00:00] Mark: Okay, welcome everybody to a very special edition of the Boostly podcast. As always, we give host the tools, the tactics to training and the confidence to get more direct bookings. And I've got a very special guest with me, Mr. Mike Michalowicz, author of so many books, but we're gonna talk about, uh, the revised version of clockwork today.

[00:00:19] Mark: So as we always do, as we crack on with a briefly podcast episode, let's get started with a lovely little freestyle rap. This is a

[00:00:27] Mike: freestyle I'm going off the dime.

[00:00:33] Mike: Ready for my close up. Good looking, let me tell you get more bookings. Ah, that'd be nice. Giving me tips, tools and advice. Yeah, you're gonna get 'em hun. You're gonna sit back. Listen to Mark Simpson. What?

[00:00:44] Mark: Having

[00:00:45] Mike: a blast, gonna get it on the Bruce Lee podcast cars. Bruce Lee, let Bruce Lee cuz it's so hard on the TVs, loose leaf making up those rhymes.

[00:00:52] Mike: Don't write it. Just do we loose leave if you want my respect you'll better. But direct here are the words in the podcast. That's what. Here we go. I love that. I love how you have to say book directed. You get there additional fingers growing it's, uh, it's

[00:01:08] Mark: there with the allergy reference as well. So it's, it's all good.

[00:01:11] Mark: Thank you for doing this. Google tells me Mr. Mike Michalowicz. This is your 152nd guest podcast episode, so, okay. You have done more than what most people put out in, in, in their entirety. So thank you so much for doing this.

[00:01:26] Mike: Oh, this is my joy. Thanks so much for having.

[00:01:29] Mark: So we're talking today about, uh, the clockwork book.

Why did Mike decide to do a revised version of the book now?

[00:01:33] Mark: Um, it is revised and expanded. So I'm gonna let you explain all about it in a second. Yeah. Um, but could you just, uh, very quickly just, I guess the best place to start is why did you feel, um, like now was a good time to do a revised version of the very popular clockwork book?

[00:01:50] Mike: Yeah, I think part of it was because the growing popularity of clockwork and then the realization.

[00:01:57] Mike: Some people are reading the book and unable to successfully implement all the strategies without additional help. And that's not my intention. My intention is that when you read one of my books, everything I know is in there and it's executable without getting any assistance. I want a full package, but one of the challenges of writing a book, the first time I wrote clockwork is the only experiences I have implementing it are businesses I've personally coached, or one of my team members have coached or our own C.

[00:02:23] Mike: Which implies that when they have questions, whatever, you know, we're dynamically addressing it. But a book is a, it's a linear pitch. It's like, you know, here's line one, here's line two, go do it like there, you can't ask questions. You can only reread. So I found that, um, there were certain elements of the book that needed to be rewritten as a result.

[00:02:41] Mike: Um, 60% of the book is, is brand new content. Um, the framework is, is the same, but the way it's positioned in the way you can digest. I think is, is a multiple easier to do. 40% of it is realigned. So I took parts that were working and people were able to absorb and moved around the other stuff. I, I redone it to simplify hopefully dramatically.

[00:03:03] Mark: So one of the things that I noticed, and I've been very lucky to have like a little sneak preview at the, the new edition is that. You were talking to employees, not just employee. There's cool. Little love notes in chapters two and 10. Yes. Could you just sort of, um, speak to the fact on why you decided to, to, to do this?

[00:03:24] Mike: Yeah, so, so interesting is when the first version clockwork came out and, uh, I think calls from entrepreneurs, business owners that were implementing it. They said, I want my employees to do this. I said, great. Share the book with them. They say, I can't, I can't share the book because it talks about how the entrepreneur runs the.

[00:03:39] Mike: So there was this disconnect. And what I did with this version of clockwork is at the end of every single chapter, there's a section exclusively for the employee and how to implement it. They have a choice. They can read the entire book and get that section I encourage 'em to, or they don't have to. But what I also point out to the business owner is this is a, a look that they don't normally get.

[00:04:00] Mike: They understand how you're think. Many employees don't have an understanding cuz it's not provided to them. So they come to their own conclusions, which not often is right. Oh, the business owner just wants this business to be efficient so they can make lots of money and uh, take advantage of me. Um, but the reality is the business owner wants the business to be efficient so that they can employ more people that the business can run more efficiently.

[00:04:22] Mike: That's a more stable business and yeah, the owner just like everyone probably wants to take a break once in a while. So you start getting this perspective that I think is a little bit different and helps the. My hope is when someone reads the book, a business owner, um, or a department head, they read it and say, okay, there's something want to implement that.

[00:04:38] Mike: Now they're inspired to give each one of the employees a copy or rotate that one copy around, but let everyone experience it so that they can participate in the success. That's my last component. Clock work from a leadership standpoint is about 10%. It's the deployment of the system. 90% is people actually buying into it and doing it.

[00:04:58] Mike: So I think they will benefit by reading it.

[00:05:00] Mark: Well, I can personally speak to the fact that we had a, a new team member start boosty over the course of the last three weeks. And one of the first things that I asked for, for her to do so hi, Annie, is, was that read the clockwork book, you know, really buy into what we're trying to do here.

[00:05:13] Mark: So, uh, she had. Loved it. And I was not afraid in any way, shape or form, uh, to pass it to a, to a teamwork. We now have every one of our Teamworks read the book because it's, we're all on the same. I love that. So yeah, it was, it was massive for us. So yeah, I'm, I'm a, I'm a big fan. I've taken part on the, uh, the training behind the scenes with Adriannene and the team and, oh, she's great.

[00:05:33] Mark: Yeah, we've we we've, we've had an amazing time and Boley has massively benefit for it. And I feel like anybody that has read the first one will be familiar. We've I feel like one of the biggest takeaways or biggest sort of people that remember the first one for is the QIA the queen. Yes. Yes. And, um, the, one of the features as well was the four DS.

[00:05:54] Mark: And this is something that I've always gone over is, is the four DS. And this time you've added in the fifth. Um, right. So could you please, just for anybody who's not checked out clockwork, the first book, could you just quickly go over those four DS and just add in the 5th D that you've added in? Yeah, for sure.

The Clockwork books 5 D’s

[00:06:08] Mark: This was really interesting to me, how it all sort of came. .

[00:06:12] Mike: Yeah. And in, in reference to your first comment with the QBR, the heart of the book, the heart of the concept, that was probably the most, uh, that I, I re-engaged in. I, that was the most important yet. Also the most confusing. And I think I'm convinced now we have it so that anyone can implement it just by reading the book.

[00:06:30] Mike: Um, but the, the four DS now, 50. Monumentally important because it gives us a perspective of how our business is operating. So here it is, the four DS are the four different stages of involvement people can have with the business. There's a doing phase. That's the first D that are the that's the activities within the business that are necessary to provide the product or service to the client or the infrastructure support behind it.

[00:06:53] Mike: You sell t-shirts, that's a doing. You make the t-shirt, that's a doing activity, but it's the invoicing, all the infrastructure, all that's doing, it's all the necessary components. So the customer can have the experience of purchasing, acquiring and experiencing your Proctor service. That needs to be the majority of a business' activity, but it can't be the only activity.

[00:07:13] Mike: And it's usually the owner of the first one who starts navigating through the other activities. So the next one up is called deciding and deciding is a precarious and risky thing it's necessary, but you only want sit there for a short period. Deciding is the activity where you're making the decisions for the other people on your team about how to proceed.

[00:07:32] Mike: And, uh, this is necessary in a small business, but it can't last for long because what happens is say, I make t-shirts, it's just me. I make that first hire. They come on. I say, okay, here's how we make, t-shirts put in this press, put this ink on it. And, and now we have a design that we wanted to get out there.

[00:07:48] Mike: It's the employees likely to come to me and say, Hey, I'm about to put the ink on. What, what color should we do should be blue or red. They say, oh, you know what? The order was for red, so it should be red. And then they say, okay, uh, how do you make red? Like they come back with all these questions at certain point.

[00:08:03] Mike: Um, if the employee keeps asking questions, I've now restricted my ability to do anything except for answers those questions. And we see this play out. Statistically, the vast majority, I think is about 95% of businesses globally. Have less than three employees. And the reason that's true is because the owner is making all the decisions for everybody else.

[00:08:22] Mike: They're simply assigning tasks and saying, when you're done, come back to me, tasks, come back to me. And then the owner can't do any work themselves because all they're doing is task rabbiting all the time. So it's necessary for early stage employees it's necessary in certain circumstances. But what we wanna do the majority of time is what's called.

[00:08:39] Mike: Sadly, we confused designing. I'm sorry. Deciding in delegation, we think we're delegating when we're actually deciding for others. Delegation's not the assignment of tasks. It's the assignment of outcomes it's saying, okay. We need to print shirts that match this order. Uh, do you agree with that? And why do you agree with that?

[00:08:57] Mike: Well, you know, these clients order this, there's the expectation that's been set, they're paying for this. We have to meet this order. It is a no brainer. Great. So we understand the. Your job is to guess there. And any questions you have, I want you to use your brain on how to do it. Now what's gonna happen is the employee comes in and says, Hey, uh, should be red or blue.

[00:09:14] Mike: And you say, well, what's your decision? What a common response by ways. I don't know. That's a quick cop out. And then you say, well, listen, I hired you for what's on that shoulder, viewers, that brain of viewers, what would you do if you did know? And you keep pushing the decision back to them, that's what delegation is, is where they're empowered to do decisions.

[00:09:30] Mike: Here's the thing they're not gonna make perfect decisions, nor did we growing our. So when they come back and say, you know, I decided to do pink, you gotta say, okay, if you feel that's in the best interest of our clients, let's go do it. Even though you may say, oh, I wish you were doing red. And then they come back.

[00:09:47] Mike: And, uh, sometimes they're gonna make decisions that, that, uh, are gonna be wrong, at least in your opinion. Um, but least you've empowered them to make decisions. They have control. That's a big way for people to take ownership over their roles. My only warning is as an owner of a business as the mentor for employee.

[00:10:02] Mike: If they're making a decision that harms the business significantly, then you need to intercept and say, Hey, you know, let's look at the order and see if you wanna change your decision around doing pink. And they say, oh, it says red on the order. We should do red. Okay. Good job. So you wanna coach 'em through that?

[00:10:15] Mike: So delegations assignment outcomes. Next level's called designing. That's the highest level designing is the, uh, the vision for the business where we wanna move it and the choreograph or the organization of resources to. How do I move us all together to get to this outcome in a way that's successful and supportive of everybody, design work, uh, is hard work.

[00:10:36] Mike: And for an organization, 10% of the time should be spent designing, thinking of the future and visioning. And if you're just the only owner of a business, the only employee in the business, 80% of the time you gotta be doing rest time is do, uh, dedicates other 3d. The business grows more and more of your personal time is dedicated to it.

[00:10:54] Mike: But we always keep that balance. The majority of our time, 80% are more doing, but the 50 is downtime and this was a revelation on actually the research came out of England, um, of how, uh, people are productive. And when they found is we're really good at sprinting, we're not good at those long eight hour days, particularly the knowledge workers we found that the average knowledge worker produces for about 3.2 hours per.

[00:11:18] Mike: Regardless of the number of hours we work. So you could have an eight hour Workday or a five hour Workday, and you're still producing the same amount. So we need to afford downtime. I'm not saying this is lunch breaks and so forth. It could be, but also you may just choose to hire staff that does downtime on their own.

[00:11:34] Mike: Over half. Our staff here is part-time employees and they, they work for four or five hours a day. And then the rest of the time, uh, they experience downtime on their own, whatever activities they choose to participate on at their homes or wherever. What we find is by compressing the work hours, uh, that people are still producing it three to four hours a day.

[00:11:54] Mike: So you don't need people on, you know, full time because they're not fully engaged. That's the importance of downtime. Mm.

[00:12:02] Mark: So good. And I feel like the last couple of years and everything that's happened in the world, it's, it's sort of. Made a lot of people think, especially over here in the UK, like how business owners are running their business staff, don't have to be in offices all of the time.

[00:12:15] Mark: You know, we are more than capable of doing the hybrid model and, uh, so many people now on the school run and, and, and people that I parents that I chat to, I think everything has changed over the last couple of years. So it's really interesting to see it. And that study coming out of ING. England is, is interesting too.

[00:12:29] Mark: So yeah, the,

[00:12:30] Mike: the UK is really on the forefront of this. I believe another article broke recently that, uh, in the UK. There was a mandate for 3000 companies. It's a grand experiment that they moved to a four day work week. Yeah. To see how people are engaging. And, uh, so thanks UK, because I think this is gonna become a global phenomenon.

[00:12:48] Mike: They do their research. Uh, we on our own accord actually implemented that strategy ourselves too. And we started at two years ago, uh, or maybe three now. We're closed on Fridays. Like no one's expected to work on Friday. What we found is this morphing into is everyone has a set of expectations to produce a project over a certain period of time a week or a month or a day.

[00:13:09] Mike: Everyone has expectations of what to deliver. They're given the flexibility to find the schedule that supports them. And we still have this rhythm of saying every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, we are going to meet face to face or virtually just to reconnect. So we're still in this rhythm. It's not everyone's on their.

[00:13:25] Mike: We're we're offering more freedom. And it seems so far it's resulting in more productivity.

[00:13:30] Mark: We're talking about reconnecting offices, working a little bit differently, bringing it back to hospitality for a brief minute. What we're finding is people that have got larger properties, maybe they can sleep 12 to 20 people in a larger property.

[00:13:41] Mark: We're finding offices now are booking out places for a week. Cause they're doing that, that reconnecting that you're talking about. So it's a, we're talking about hospitality, short term rentals. There's a whole new demographic. Of client now and, and business guests are some of the best guests to have, because there's a fantastic way of having it repeated quarterly or annually.

[00:14:00] Mark: So, yeah, really interesting. So I wanna move on to another part of the book that's been sort of revised slightly the trim trash transfer, and we've now added treasure, another tea, right. Treasure, right. Another we've added another tea in which is treasure. Yeah. T and D T. So we've got, so, um, yeah, please speak to that.

[00:14:19] Mark: Yeah.

The additional T, Treasure

[00:14:20] Mike: Yeah, of course. The fourth tee treasure, um, Points to that. There are certain things we need to value in the work we do. Well, it starts off with the first three Ts. So in optimizing the roles of individuals within a company, the first thing we wanna do see, is there anything that's trackable? Meaning?

[00:14:37] Mike: Is there anything that is not serving the business? As an example, we were doing a newsletter here that I was writing myself, took me about four hours a month to write it one month. I just forgot to do it. And a single subscriber said, where's my newsletter. And I like go another month and no one. And I test, I sent it and then the next month after I didn't do it again, and no one said, boo, I was like, oh my gosh, four hours a month of waste of time.

[00:14:57] Mike: I was just doing it because historically we'd done it. There's no value being delivered and it's costing time. That's traceable. The next thing is not everything's traceable. Maybe a few historical things are the next thing. Is it transferable? Meaning can we send work to someone as optimized to do that work or prefers to do that work?

[00:15:14] Mike: At least for me, it was invoicing. I, I do in, I did invoicing. I'm not necessarily good at it. I actually don't like doing it. So I usually push off until the end of the day, uh, a late hour and I was tired and cranky and I had to get this out. It was, uh, necessary evil. Then I transferred to someone who said, my gosh, I love invoicing.

[00:15:32] Mike: I love the detail. I love seeing the health of our organization and tracking it. I'm like you love invoicing. Are you crazy? It's a necessary evil. They're like, it's a necessary joy. It's so much. One person's garbage is another person's treasure, right. Or one person's trash is another person's treasure.

[00:15:48] Mike: Right? So that was a big realization. Can you transfer work away from what does not give you joy or you're not efficient and effective at to someone who gets joy at it and is efficient and effective. The next one, uh, so has trash, uh, I'm sorry. Trash trim. Last one is tr um, trash transfer. Last one's trim.

[00:16:07] Mike: Trim is where we. Take work that we must do, but see if we can find efficiencies in it. Mm. I allow these one on one meetings here at the office to talk about projects and so forth. And we moved it to a group meeting a morning huddle. It takes 10 minutes and something that was taking hours a week to transfer knowledge, um, just by setting up one group meeting, we're able to bang it out really quickly and get the same results.

[00:16:32] Mike: That's a trim. So you don't remove the job, you structure in a new way where it moves more efficiently. And then the newest thing we added was treasure. It came out of the book that, uh, I was getting emails from meters saying, I want a clockwork for my business and I don't wanna leave my business. Like, I, I want something to do in my life.

[00:16:48] Mike: So I'm not gonna do clockwork. I'm like what? You, you're not gonna do clockwork because you you'll run yourself outta the job. And they said, yeah. So I said, okay, Here's the reality. You wanna run yourself out of a job because you can then reinsert yourself in the way that gives you joy. So if the business doesn't need you, then you get a cherry pick what you gotta do.

[00:17:07] Mike: And that's the best part of being a shareholder of a business. Do what you want. I did it for myself. I've been doing clockwork now. I think I'm on my fifth year. I take a annual for vacation. Actually last year, took nine week vacation, an annual vacation from the business to prove the business can run.

[00:17:21] Mike: And I've selected what I like to do. And there's, there's two things I love to do. Being a spokesperson, kinda what we're doing now. I love talking about this stuff. Secondly, being an author, just writing about it. So those two components is what now represents almost all my time in the business. I do other things cuz sometimes it's necessary and it's not transferable, but those are the things I treasure and are prioritized.

[00:17:40] Mark: Love it. Um, you very quickly mentioned shareholder. This is something that I've picked up from. Not. Yeah, snuck in. I like that. Some of it I've noticed over the last like seven months that I've been doing the run like clockwork program. Um, uh, you mentioned it on, on, on one of the videos, uh, one of the live videos.

[00:17:57] Mark: Can you just sort of talk to shareholder? Cause I, I admit I've tried this party or meeting it with parents hard, right? The first time. So hard. Can you just explain how. You describe it and speak to it and just sort of explain how people can adopt it as well. Cause it's, it's fascinating. So hard.

[00:18:14] Mike: but can you just talk?

[00:18:15] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. So hard, but it plays into human psychology. It is the human propensity to comply with how we identify. So when we label ourselves as something, we will start acting consistently with it to prove that label true. I'm horrible at math. I won't study, I won't prepare. I stink at accounting. I won't do the accounting and that will prove I am horrible accounting.

[00:18:36] Mike: Cause I'm not touching it. Well, if we call ourselves an entrepreneur, I think unfortunately, that term has become bastardized to say hustle and grind. You're an entrepreneur. You gotta work harder than anyone. You gotta grind out more than anyone to gain the success. And that was never the definition of entrepreneurship.

[00:18:51] Mike: It's always been someone who sees a vision and organizes resources and people to get to that vision. They're the great risk taker. How do we make a vision come true by organizing others to engage? So I was like, well, the word entrepreneur, as much as I love, it's been damaged and we start behaving like a hustle and grind person.

[00:19:09] Mike: What's the new word. And it's like, oh, it's shareholder. I own stock in a public company. And uh, they send out their quarterly profit distributions. And when I get it, I don't say, oh my gosh, I need to run down to this company and earn these profits by working harder. I don't work for them. And, uh, I don't say I gotta return the money to them.

[00:19:25] Mike: I simply say I was a investor in this business. I took risk. I'm hoping the valuation goes up, but it could go. This is a reward to me for taking risk. As an entrepreneur, chances are you are a large shareholder, 50%. If you have partner more, a hundred percent, if you're a solo, you are the shareholder and you have to have shareholder responsibilities, which means have a vision for the business.

[00:19:48] Mike: Just like the stock I own, I vote my vision. We influence the board. We select whose board members we do strategic planning through voting, and that's what we need to do for a business. It's that design work. That's why shareholder does they think about the future? They take the risk and make the investments to, to get there.

[00:20:06] Mike: Um, and by saying the word shareholder, you're gonna start complying with it. Now here's the challenge. And it's weird. Every time you're at a cocktail party or you're visiting with friends and they say, what do you do? You meet someone new? Say I'm a shareholder of a small business and it is freaking awkward.

[00:20:21] Mike: You're like, I like, what does that mean? Like, I don't even know what it means. I just said this. Cause Mike made me say it but once you say it enough times and you start complying with it, you're like, okay. I'm a shareholder of a small business. Um, I'm not expected to do the work. I'm expected to design the outcomes and sharing the profits because I've taken the risk of investing.

[00:20:40] Mike: So stick with it, brother, not a easy, but stick with a certain day. You

[00:20:44] Mark: shareholder of a small business. I love it. That's right. I will. I will. I

[00:20:48] Mike: promise you. I'm a shareholder of a small business too. That's awesome. There you go.

[00:20:52] Mark: that's gonna throw me even more. If somebody. It was work for the methods and whatnot.

[00:20:57] Mark: So it straight back to me, I hang on

[00:20:59] Mike: us. You too will hug it out. You'll be, oh my God. You're my best

[00:21:02] Mark: friend now I found you. Yeah. I found you. Thank you. So, okay. I've got two more questions and this slightly goes down a personal rule, but I feel it'd be good for any bud in offers out there. So, um, I'm about to embark on my, my, my second.

Why was there a 4 year gap and what advice did Mike wish he had received?

[00:21:15] Mark: um, now toilet paper entrepreneur was released in 2008. That's right. Uh, and then you've got the pumpkin plan, which Google tells me was four years later in 2012. That's right. Since then every single year after 2012, pretty much every two years you've released a book. Yeah. So what, and why can you speak to the fact, why was there a four year.

[00:21:37] Mark: Gap. Does there any reason being, what was the reason for a four year gap? And the second part question to that is what's the one piece of advice you would wished you had received from going from the first book to the second book before you went back?

[00:21:50] Mike: So one of the reasons there was a two reasons, but there's one of the main reasons why there was a four year gap between my first book.

[00:21:55] Mike: And second book was, it was brand new to authorship and I was working on one concept to a paper entrepreneur from start to finish, finish it and then said, okay, what's the new concept? As I was working on pumpkin plans, like, oh my gosh, I have all these different concepts that need to be in different stages.

[00:22:11] Mike: So the first stages is what's not working in the entrepreneurial community. People aren't profitable, for example, consistently why and start throwing theories out there and then start testing. So as I was writing the pumpkin plan profit first, for example, was being tested and deployed and worked on then as I'm finishing, writing pumpkin plan.

[00:22:30] Mike: Now I'm in the process of ramping up profit first and. That's how I do it. So clockwork while it's being released next month, as of this recording or posting, um, one year from now, one year and a month or two, my next book's coming out. It's halfway through the writing. I call codification stage. I, the systems, we've all been tested.

[00:22:48] Mike: We got the concept. Now I'm just writing it and, and putting it together. As I finished that manuscript, which will be done in the next four months, five months typically. Um, I'm already have the next concept that we're, we're testing out around. Here and, uh, should be in full kind of writing mode a year and a half from now.

[00:23:06] Mike: And that keeps me on this pace. Uh, work on multiple books at once. That's the

[00:23:10] Mark: secret work on multiple books at once. Very clever. No, that, that explains a lot. Thank you very much for, for, for doing so. Okay. So the final, final question, and I'll, I'll let you go. So I really do appreciate your time. So I would say the GI, the book that I gift and recommend the most is clockwork.

[00:23:24] Mark: Uh, that and tools of Titan by Tim Ferris and star. Oh, that's such a good book. Yeah. Love that one. And StoryBrand by Donald

[00:23:30] Mike: Miller. So those that's awesome. Those three

[00:23:33] Mark: books are the ones that I, I gift the most, but I'm curious to know, is there a, is there a book that you gift the most is a book that you recommend or gift the most to entrepreneurs or just any in general?

[00:23:44] Mark: Is there, it can be fiction non-fiction but is there

[00:23:46] Mike: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's so many books. I read that. Gift very specifically, I used to say, oh, you, you mark need to read this book. It's so good. Then I discovered that's not a good question to ask or, or thing to do. I found what challenge do you have?

[00:24:01] Mike: So I asked people now I'm like, Hey, what challenge are you facing? Lily's had a call with, uh, uh, a business owner two days ago. And they said we to let go six, six staff members. Not because they, um, are not performing cuz our company's in trouble. How do I communicate this? I'm like, oh, have you read verbal judo, judo?

[00:24:18] Mike: Have you read? Never split the difference. Like no, like two books are on their way to you. So I love a whole gambit of books. And I recommend, I, I don't have one that's my religious one anymore. If anything, maybe emo, but there's not one like to, I like that question

[00:24:37] Mark: though. It's the, what are you struggling with?

[00:24:39] Mark: Cause struggling now.

[00:24:40] Mike: Yeah, I, yeah. Yeah, because otherwise I found that I'm throwing people off course, like their problem is hiring or getting rid of some people and I give 'em a book on, um, you know, financial manage. It's not in sync with their biggest challenge. Mm. Yeah,

[00:24:55] Mark: definitely. No, thank you very much.

[00:24:57] Mark: I really appreciate it. So, okay. Time for the big pitch, the clockwork revised and expanded design your business to run itself. Uh, what is the release date and where can everybody go and grab a copy? Uh,

[00:25:09] Mike: August 25th. Clockwork revising expanded. You can find it on at any bookstore. It's on Amazon dot everything, Amazon do everything.

[00:25:17] Mike: Um, and if you go to right now, you can get some early access stuff. Uh, including, I think just came in a few days ago. We have some. Collector's edition copies, uh, right across my hallway here that we're gonna be sending out if anyone is interested in purchasing

[00:25:33] Mark: one of those. Perfect. So, please still go check it out.

[00:25:37] Mark: Uh, really, really thank you for this. You can find S everywhere, YouTube, you name it. It's all on the socials. Thank you so much for your time. Uh, really appreciate it. Uh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for doing this and thank you everybody for tuning in wherever you. On the social spear or the YouTube or podcast it's everywhere now.

[00:25:53] Mark: So thank you again. Thank you so much, everybody. And we will be back again with another podcast episode very soon. And we'll see you out with another freestyle app. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Thank you so much for checking out today's podcast episode now, before you head and go anywhere else before you click to the next episode, before you do that, do me one big favor and go check out boost Lee dot code UK slash trust IRA, add a sponsors of all of the booster content, and the reason why I work with them.

[00:26:20] Mark: And the reason why we spread the. Of IRA, is that when a host or a company is looking to get more into DRA bookings, the main question they have is around trust as in will a guest trust that I am a true and real business, will IRA take care of all of that. And they've got a special offer that is only available to boosty people, but to do that, you need to go to boost Lee, which is B O O.

[00:26:44] Mark: TL Y dot code UK slash trust. You can find out all the information there. You can book in a demo book in a call, and then you'll get your super special offer that is only available to Boley peoples, thank you again for tuning in do go check out IRA. We'll be back again very shortly with another podcast episode, but until then, we'll see you all very soon.

[00:27:04] Mark: Take care.


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