Welcome to Boostly Podcast Episode 515. In this podcast episode I will be talking with Michelle Cairns from Your Property Network a leading UK a property magazine.
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[00:00:00] Liam: Hey. Hey, so welcome to the Boostly Spotlight series on the Boost Sleep Podcast, and today we are gonna be joined by a very special guest. So for those who have just joined us on the Facebook Live, or who are listening in on the podcast, my name's Liam. And this is the miniseries which features people and services and products that you as a hospitality owner need to know about, or need to be aware of for your business.
[00:00:26] The world of hospitality and property sometimes overlap and collide. And, uh, for those who are more in the property side of things, you may already recognize our guests today. Um, if you're a host who's just looking to get started with maybe an investment or a new short term rental, an SA unit, something like that, you're gonna really want to pay attention to today's, uh, podcast.
[00:00:48] So for the next 20 minutes, we're gonna dive into, The blurred lines of property essay and how you can invest in, you know, an asset, uh, for your business. [00:01:00] So, um, we've, without further ado, uh, we thought that'd be cool to introduce to you. Uh, we've got Michelle Khans from Your Property Network. Your Property Network is a leading UK property magazine.
[00:01:10] It is the, the leading UK property magazine, uh, for people who want to know about property and, uh, an essential resource. So welcome along.
[00:01:20] Michelle: Hi Liam. Thanks so much for having me. Great to be here. Oh, it's
[00:01:23] Liam: fantastic to have you. I know, uh, I've been a fan of the podcast. I've, I've listened in, so I'm sure many others will, will recognize you.
[00:01:30] And for those, because a lot of our audience are more hospitality based, this is a good, um, introduction. If you don't know who Michelle is or your property network, if, if they give you a Google or or such app, then uh, I'm sure they're gonna be pleasantly surprised. So, um, let's dive in. Shall.
[00:01:48] Michelle: Absolutely.
[00:01:48] Yeah. It's interesting actually that you start off by saying, you know, the hospitality and the property, because obviously I've only ever come from the property world. So, um, it's always surprising to me when I meet people from the [00:02:00] hospitality world who've, who are just, you know, they're not aware of all the education and all of the, um, you know, the sort of the property perspective on how you can, uh, not only scale your business and buy, um, buy more units, but also the creative strateg.
[00:02:16] For example, you know, controlling a property, uh, you know, what we people might know of is rent to essay. Um, where you're working as the operator with the owner. In a sort of management with guaranteed in, uh, guaranteed rent or, um, profit share, things like that. So, um, yeah, it's, it, you know, it's interesting to kind of be in front of a new audience,
[00:02:38] Liam: That's awesome. And, uh, yeah. You know, that's what we're about. This is what we love about this spotlight series, is that we bring people in with. Services and who's got expertise that our hosts may, may want to know about. And our audience really, uh, you know, sort of is, is quite varied from people with bed and breakfast to people who do SA or even rent to SA themselves.
[00:02:56] And we've got a lot of audiences based across the us, um, across [00:03:00] the world now, which is really cool. So, um, I'm excited to, to dive into those cool things today and let's get started. You know, what is, um, your property network? What is Ypm? Yeah,
[00:03:10] Michelle: so YPN has been running for about 12 years now and, uh, is the, I should say the lead, UK's leading property magazine, uh, is a physical copy.
[00:03:18] Uh, we do, we have gone online and where there is an app now, uh, but we've got around 9,000 readers every month. That subscribe to the magazine. It's, uh, in all of the main networking events across the country. And, uh, what's interesting about the magazine for anyone who is already a subscriber, um, or for people who want to subscribe to it, is that, um, over the years they really have built a very strong community.
[00:03:42] So one thing that I noticed when I first started reading it was I, um, started following the people who had been featured or were writing articles and started following them on social media. And very quickly I. They were already connected with each other. Um, so the community [00:04:00] aspect is very strong and, um, you know, we kind of meet up for social occasions and, uh, we've got next, next month there's a, um, a dinner, you know, a night, a night out for Christmas.
[00:04:12] And there's lot, you know, there's lots of familiar faces. So that's a really strong community. Um, so obviously started with the magazine and then we've branched out into different training programs, which one of them will speak about today. And the great thing about the training programs is it's not just one person who's kind of, you know, just the sole, um, expert if you like, because we've got so many great contacts.
[00:04:35] What we thought we'd do was. We pull everyone together. So we've got contacts from all over, you know, different parts of the country, uk, uh, the world even, and, um, and, and different niches within different industries. So, for example, we've got one, um, I, I'll refer to it as service accommodation. I know, uh, a lot of your, uh, listeners will know it as short term rental.
[00:04:59] Um, but what we [00:05:00] did, we had lots of case studies, so people who wanted to showcase, uh, their properties, then they'd come to us and say, Hey, look at this great deal. I did. So it was featured in the magazine, on the podcasts, and then obviously on the training programs and just. Coll best practice. Really, that's what we're about.
[00:05:16] Keeping our fingers on the pulse of what's going on, what's changing, um, and doing lots of, uh, up to date webinars, a bit like this with, um, with industry leaders to find out, you know, what's happening in the market, how can people prepare and, uh, sort of. Yep. Future proofing. That's, you know, a good business practice really.
[00:05:36] Liam: I love that. And you know, what you said about building a community, I mean, you know, the community that I've seen from, from YPN is absolutely amazing. And that is what Boost Lee is about is, is levering. Knowledge from hosts and from people across the, uh, you know, expertise from across the world. Uh, which is really cool.
[00:05:55] And I know that a lot of our hosts will know [00:06:00] or some will know about, you know, service accommodation and, uh, some may have heard of the rent to rent sort of strategies. So, What sort of opportunities are around there at the moment? Is it, is it a good opportunity to get into sort of rent, to rent and into service accommodation?
[00:06:14] Michelle: It's a
[00:06:14] great question and, uh, one from one of our members yesterday on the, one of the coaching calls actually. And, um, you know, the rent to SA or any, any model where you are, um, you know, you take on the management yourself and you work with the owner and say, I'm going to, I'm gonna rent this property from you, and then I'm gonna rent it out as something else, either to like as a house share or as a short term rental service, accommodation, whatever it is.
[00:06:41] Holiday. Let, So typically you would guarantee the owner the rent every month, the, the, you know, the owner's hands off and, and you take over everything else. That model really requires you doing the work. Not you. That's where the margin is, and you actually [00:07:00] physically setting everything up yourself. It doesn't really lend itself unless you've got very high margins, which is possible.
[00:07:06] It doesn't really lend itself to you taking it on and then getting a managing agent in. So essentially you become the managing agent, and that's the business that you grow. You don't have to grow it forever, and you could just do it until you get to a certain point and then you know, you. Uh, then you can leverage and, um, and bring on other agents and other professionals.
[00:07:25] So, um, the way, you know, things are on the market. Yeah, it, it all depends on, you know, the location, the type of property. If you've got a fantastic location, um, and you know, you know that you're gonna have no doubt about kind of fill in that, uh, property and, and making sure that's full or, you know, uh, maximum occupancy for whatever that is for you, 75% or whatever.
[00:07:49] Then you know that you might be comfortable kind of guaranteeing that rent for typically three to five years. Some people aren't comfortable doing that at all and they just opt for sort of [00:08:00] straightforward, more of a management role. Um, and other people, uh, which is interesting, actually have seen a lot of people doing profit share.
[00:08:07] So they'll say, Okay, once all the expenses have been paid for this property, after that we'll go 50 50 on the profit share. So that actually reduces. All of the risk really, Um, you know, most of the risk you can Also, there's things that you can do to mitigate risk if, you know, if you're more risk averse, it depends on how, what your risk tolerance is.
[00:08:27] Um, but you know, you can have in contracts, for example, to say, Well, if I'm going to, um, do the property for you, let's say that's like a tired. Two bed flat, uh, but it's in a great location. It's got parking and you know that it'll rent out. Uh, you'd be able to let it out really. Well, what you can do is you can come in, you know, you can put new carpet, new paint, like put all the furnishings in.
[00:08:49] Um, you might want to upgrade things and, and just make it really smart. So if you are investing in that, put in that property in someone else's property, which typically a managing agent wouldn't, [00:09:00] that's a difference. Um, then you would. Some negotiation that might be a lower rent to pay to the landlord. It might be, uh, a couple of weeks rent free at the beginning to get started.
[00:09:11] Um, it might be, um, you know, in some occasions you might have the option to buy. The property in the future, uh, you know, you can work that into a contract as well. Um, yeah, so there's lots of, kind of ways of doing it and, uh, just whatever works for you with that property, with that landlord at the time. Um, there isn't really one size fits all.
[00:09:34] It's more. Understanding what's possible then having a blank piece of paper and working with the owner. So it's a win-win solution all around.
[00:09:42] Liam: That's really cool. And I know, uh, people listening in on that, I'll, I'll go, Well, if I don't have to, you know, buy a property and there's other ways to do it, I don't have to have that lump sum to go and invest in property that I might be able to go down the, uh, in the US they call it rental arbitrage or rent to rent here, you know, rent to sa.
[00:09:58] Then if [00:10:00] they can go down that route, then there's a chance that they can make an extra. And already leverage for most of our audience are gonna know hospitality at the moment. So they'll already, normally they see around, we often see, um, you know, property people get a property and then having to learn the hospitality side of things.
[00:10:17] And this is what's cool about, uh, having you on here, is that. If there's property people out there who want to understand hospitality, then that's kind of, uh, where we can help, how to market, how to get the best guest reviews and all of that side of things. And for the hosts that we've got listening to this who may have already run.
[00:10:36] You know, Airbnbs, uh, short term rentals bed breakfast for a while, that they've already got a gauge of the demand in the area that they could easily look to leverage some of these opportunities in, in doing rent to SA or, or understanding that. But they'd need to know really what is involved and, and how, how to do that.
[00:10:55] So, Obviously as, as part of the Spotlight series, what, um, [00:11:00] kind of training or what kind of help can you give to hosts who are, who are looking to do that?
[00:11:05] Michelle: Yeah, so with the magazine what we noticed was that we were getting a lot of people submitting these, um, you know, short term rental case studies and showcasing, uh, what they were doing.
[00:11:14] And, you know, the numbers were really impressive. Um, and a lot of people were able to use this rent to say the. System to actually scale quite quickly or, you know, grow to a significant amount, um, to replace their income and leave their day job, for example. Um, and, but we noticed that there wasn't really at that time any, you know, like comprehensive training in place.
[00:11:37] So we thought we'd put our own together. And what we did is we, uh, You know, collated, just all of these case studies together. So people are with good practice, but also we did want to, um, cater for people at any stage of their journey. So for people who are just starting out and they want to, but perhaps they've got no money or no, you know, time or no resources, you know, we've [00:12:00] kind of.
[00:12:00] Um, providing, providing training for wherever they're at. So likewise, people who, who already had a business, a service accommodation business, and they wanted to scale up. Uh, so we had lots of, uh, clients coming in and, and just sharing their best practice on how to scale. So, A lot of the training is, is around systemizing, uh, your business.
[00:12:20] It, we've got tax advisors, we've got, um, mortgage advisors, um, planning consultants. Uh, we've got, um, interior designers in there. So, you know, the whole kind of. Um, package really of, you know, what some people call a power team, but having that kind of team in place where you don't have to go out searching for, you know, your mortgage broker or your tax advisor.
[00:12:44] Um, you know, we've got a trusted circle of people who work with the magazine. They write every month for us. Um, we know who they are. We've got the, you know, they're well established and, you know, and we invite them to come and talk for an hour or. And tell us what are the changes in the [00:13:00] market. Uh, yesterday we had Mely Carr from the short term, um, Accommodation Association, and she was telling us about, you know, changes in regulations and how, you know, you need things that you need to be aware of, things that are happening, you know, this month, um, within the UK of changes.
[00:13:18] Um, you know what to. Like in what's coming, but also, um, how to, how to, you know, navigate that and how to make sure that you are in the best position when these do, when these regulations do come into place. So, um, yeah, so we've got sort of, you know, hopefully covering all bases.
[00:13:36] Liam: Cool. And that's, uh, that's why you called it Total sa, was it?
[00:13:39] Oh, exactly. , Yeah. Cause it covers, you know, covers the, the total service accommodation and, uh, yeah, when it comes down to just staying up to date with the latest information, cause there's so much changing so fast in, you know, sort of the industry and you mentioned the benefits of, of tax, which, you know, for, for anybody [00:14:00] who's in short term rental will understand there is quite a lot of benefits compared to.
[00:14:05] Uh, you know, regular investing by investing in that side of things and just staying up to date with that stuff. Having somebody on hand who can give you that knowledge around the property side is just so important. Which is, which is really cool. Which is why, uh, I follow YPN and, uh, you know, if there are hosts out there who want to understand that knowledge.
[00:14:24] I mean, is it, is it sort of, is it UK wide obviously, or is it, is it more England based? Where, where is the, who gets the next benefit?
[00:14:32] Michelle: Yeah, it is UK wide. So for example, you know the lady you had talking before, you know, we, we covered each actually country. So we, like in Scotland, this is happening in Wales, this is happening in uk, this is happening.
[00:14:43] Um, so obviously that's like super, you know, just really relevant right now to how things are changing. Um, in terms of like the mortgages for example, the rates obviously changing all the time. Um, we've just, you know, recording one recently, so we, you know, [00:15:00] constantly kind of keeping up to date and, um, yeah, so we're just covering, covering all parts of the UK and, uh, and all aspects.
[00:15:08] It's, as you say, Liam, it's so important that people are keeping up to date. I mean, even on the last month, you know, we're recording this, the 13th of October here, and, um, just the last month the interest rates are going crazy and, um, you know, the market has just. Noticeably, I'm sure people have driven down the high street and realizing actually there are far more, uh, houses for sale than there are sold
[00:15:34] Um, I'm sure they're getting a few more phone calls, returned phone calls from about two years ago from their agents who, uh, you know, twining their thumbs think, Right? Okay. Things are changing. Gonna have to sort of go back to different ways. Yeah, that's, you know, for us that's what it's, um, it's all about, it's just so, it's not just the actual training that's prerecorded.
[00:15:53] We've got a, you know, catalog of a library of. Two, three years worth of content there. Um, but [00:16:00] also having two webinars every month, uh, with new guests and industry experts just to, uh, to keep our finger on the pulse of what's going on.
[00:16:09] Liam: Cool. That's cool. And, uh, I got two sort of follow up questions from that.
[00:16:12] One is, um, what would be the result of somebody doing the training? What would be the, uh, what would they, they get from it as the, the end result from doing the training? What is the.
[00:16:22] Michelle: The aim is either to start or scale your service foundation, short term mental business. So if you are brand new to this and you know, you, you want to kind of get started and work out, okay, what are my options?
[00:16:35] Um, how can I set. Myself up to succeed from day one rather than trying to figure it out on my own. Um, then, you know, that's a good place. And then also, if you already have a business, then it's about sort of streamlining, scaling, systemizing, working with virtual assistants, how to, um, you know, how to maximize your profits.
[00:16:57] What is, what are the good practice, you know, what [00:17:00] are the people doing? Kind of getting an insight into other people's businesses, and it's astonishing really how, you know, kind of frank and generous people are with their, um, with their information and, you know, talking about how like their challenges and how they overcome them.
[00:17:15] Um, so. Yeah, I think, um, just to sort of be part of a, you know, another community like you've got there and, um, uh, and plug all of those gaps so that, you know, you, you're not creating another job for yourself. I think a lot of people come into this, you know, wanting to create a business that, that, you know, is obviously financially viable, but also for a lot of people it will get them out of the day job.
[00:17:39] Um, or, you know, Yeah. Just to kind of make sure that you are working on the business, not just.
[00:17:47] Liam: Absolutely, and I'm a big advocate of that actually. Um, you know, some people will know who's listening, some may not. But using the rent to essay model is what allowed me to get out of my day job and actually do [00:18:00] hospitality service accommodation, short term rental, but the full time, which is, uh, you know, a pleasure and.
[00:18:05] You know, now I get to spend my days doing fun things like this, which is cool. So, um, when it comes down to the people out there who might be listening in and thinking, Well, you know, it, it might be for me, it might not be for me, but I'm a bit worried about what's going on in the market, What would you say to the people who are a bit on the fence and a bit unsure about, you know, the timing and, and whether or not now is the time to do this, What would you
[00:18:26] Michelle: say?
[00:18:27] I think you're right to be worried, you know, the right to kind of be aware of what's going on, um, because things are changing and things are going to change. And that's the only thing that's certain, right, is that things are definitely gonna change. Um, so you want to make sure that you are in the best position that you are because, uh, whatever happens.
[00:18:47] There are going to be people who succeed and thrive in the next, you know, whatever, 18 months hold for us, if we do go into recession, uh, as obviously there's lots of talk about, so you, you know, people are going to [00:19:00] thrive through that. And we're interested in who are those people, what are they doing differently and how can we kind of share that knowledge with you, you know, with with our community and our members.
[00:19:11] So, um, the other thing, Just be careful who you're listening to. If you are listening all day long to the news every hour where it's just like doom and gloom and it's fear, and there's, you know, there's like, yes, we all need to know what's going on, but just be mindful about how much of that you're consuming, um, because it's, it's just so important for your mindset.
[00:19:34] Just personally, nevermind professionally, to make sure that you are, you know, at your kind of peak of what you are, um, you know, what you're doing with your days, what you're doing with your time, uh, the resources that you've got available. Really focusing on what are the things that you can influence rather than what you can't influence.
[00:19:53] And the things we've got no control over. We have no control over interest rates or government regulations or anything like. [00:20:00] We might be able to have some influence by joining certain associations or, uh, becoming accredited and, you know, and making sure that we are operating professionally and making sure that our business is set up in a financially solid sound way, so that like the people who went through c the Pandemic, you know, that it was really interesting because we carried on interviewing through that.
[00:20:24] Um, and absolutely fascinating to see the people. Right. You know, obviously there was a dip, but actually have come through. What made them different? How were their, their businesses set up differently. So the people that suddenly had to kind of, you know, fold the business and close and, and lost out. So, um, you know, you are really, um, it is so important to just be part of that community, those communities where you are.
[00:20:53] Yeah, you know, you're being inspired daily, you're being empowered to actually just make [00:21:00] the most out of, you know what's there. And um, yeah. Uh, , I think that's it.
[00:21:05] Liam: It's focusing on, like what you said, focus on what you can control. Cuz ultimately there's always something that you can control. And for the businesses, we saw it during Covid ourselves were for the hosts who would market more, who would.
[00:21:18] When everyone else is zigging, you're zagging. You know, doing something slightly different, reaching out to previous guests, doing all the things that they can do, all the cool stuff, all the marketing that you can do to get more eyes on your business. Those hosts, actually, some of them thrived. I mean, certainly it was a tough time for many and for those who.
[00:21:38] You know, the training leverage of a pupil's experience. Um, you know, we had one host within the community who actually started, uh, she, she runs, uh, bed breakfast herself and she started producing, uh, bakery type stuff and things like that, and all of a sudden she's ended up with her secondary income at the end of Covid, then what she started with.
[00:21:57] So, you know, just, just having something a bit different, [00:22:00] which is, which is cool. So, yeah. Um, that's really awesome. So, Last question is, um, before we just move on to a couple of quick fire questions, is how do people get started? What's the best way to, to get started on, uh, you know, total SA course?
[00:22:13] Michelle: Yeah, so, um, if you just obviously contact me, I'll, we'll put the links in the show notes and we can just tell you a bit more about it and, um, we can, you know, give you access to, uh, just, you know, what all, everything that's about.
[00:22:25] So, um, yeah, we can. Um, sign you up and, and just tell you more about it and if it's for you and if it's not for you, Uh, it is 99 pounds a month and there's no contract, so you could always try it and see how it goes. Um, and you get access to everything on day one. It's not like, uh, staggered or, or, um, phased learning or anything like that.
[00:22:45] We've got a library. And just to point out, this is not like you start at the beginning and you work your way through three years worth of content. Uh, it's like you dip in, you find out where you know where you are at, what you need, whether that's the tax advice or the mortgage or the interior [00:23:00] design, uh, or the rent to essay, whatever that is.
[00:23:03] Um, and then obviously you're joining the, um, monthly coaching calls as well, getting to know the other members and supporting each other. And, uh, yeah. So that's it in a nutshell.
[00:23:14] Liam: That sounds really cool. So, as we come to the end of these, uh, spotlight series, we'd just love to ask a couple of quick fire questions and one that I always love to ask, obviously as, uh, you know, sort of this ypm as a publication.
[00:23:25] Is there any books or magazines that you'd recommend that everybody listening to this should, should go and check out your, your favorites Doesn't have to be on topic, but, uh, you know, particular thing that you'd like to re.
[00:23:36] Michelle: Well, obviously the magazines that goes without saying have to plug that, um, books.
[00:23:40] In terms of books. Um, one of the, one of the best books I ever read, uh, that I think people would find really useful is the Tim Ferris, uh, Four Hour Work Week. Yes. Um, I'd love to say I'm working four hours week. Um, But I certainly am working more than four hours out of choice now. Uh, and not because I have to.
[00:23:59] And I think that's [00:24:00] the, that's the difference. So that book really transformed so much of my mindset. It really helped me, um, to understand how you can work with other, like virtual assistants, for example, and, um, systemize your business and, and really just make that shift from the employee mindset. And I was a teacher.
[00:24:20] In a formal life. So I taught French and Spanish in, in secondary schools, so you can't really get much further away from property from that. So I had no, I didn't really have much corporate background. Uh, certainly not, no background as kind of in, in a business. So I had to, um, really have that mindset shift and that was, that was a great book.
[00:24:38] I think people would, um, really
[00:24:39] Liam: benefit from that. Amazing. And that's such a good book. Love Loved Him Ferris in general. Um, so another question we've gotta ask is, you know, you're, you're a host of the your Y P n, uh, or Your Property podcast, and is there any other podcast? Of course, recommend your own, and you know, is there any other podcast you'd recommend people check out and listen to?
[00:24:59] Michelle: [00:25:00] Um, and listening to, uh, well listening at the moment is called the Ultimate fd and it's by Josh Keegan and he talks about actually how to set up your finances. Um, and I know for a lot of people that kind of like, you know, spreadsheets and numbers and tax and all that kind of thing, but you really do need to know that.
[00:25:20] And the sooner that you can get. Kind of sorted, whether that's you doing it yourself or you working with somebody to, to organize all up for you. I think it's better in the long run because, you know, for a lot of people, they scale very quickly and then they've got a huge mess to sort out and they're trying to run their hospitality business and sort out their accounts and it, you know, it can be a bit of a nightmare.
[00:25:43] So, uh, I'd recommend following Josh's, um, one there and, uh, yeah.
[00:25:49] Liam: Ultimate, What was that Ultimate fd? Was it?
[00:25:51] Michelle: Yeah, I think it's financial director. I wanna say
[00:25:55] Liam: fd. I check it out. And you're absolutely right cause it's one of the things that we say and you know, when you're getting [00:26:00] into, uh, this business, and it is a business, isn't it?
[00:26:03] When it comes down to it, is you're not just learning the strategy, you know, rental to service accommodation or short term rental. Um, you're actually learning business in general, like you say, which. The financing, the making sure accounts are done, making sure that the admin is done, all the stuff which goes behind it to make sure things are run properly.
[00:26:21] So that's really cool. Yeah.
[00:26:23] Michelle: And on that note, if I can add one more book, the,
[00:26:27] Liam: That was the, Oh yeah.
[00:26:29] Michelle: The email revisited. And it's such a huge, again, mind shift. Mind, mind shift for me as well, just about how, you know, businesses operate and having all those hats that you mentioned there, and you know as much as you can to.
[00:26:43] Not be the same person that wears all those hats. And that's where the phrase working on the business rather than in it comes from as well.
[00:26:52] Liam: I love that book cuz he does talk about, I think he gives us, he tells it in stories, doesn't he? And he talks about the Baker Bakery. [00:27:00] Yeah, he's wearing all the hats.
[00:27:01] They, they say that stories, you know, stick. And they certainly do. Cause I always think of that when I think of the email. So, um, and the last question we love to ask all of our guests is, is either who inspires you or is there a life motto, uh, or quote that you like to live
[00:27:15] Michelle: by? Life motto is, um, I've just got so many of them.
[00:27:19] Uh, probably the, for me the most important one is you become like the people you spend time with, right. And, um, It's just so important that you are surrounded by people who are on the same journey as you. Um, you know, they're looking to achieve similar things or get similar results, um, that they are kind of, you know, positive can do.
[00:27:43] People that, you know, inspire you, that motivate you. Um, and yeah, I think that's just. Seeing other people achieve results that you want to do is just an incredible gift, you know, to just be around those people. So whether that in [00:28:00] involves kind of going to local networking meetings or joining programs or reading magazines or whatever that is, um, it just goes back to what I was saying before about.
[00:28:09] You know, being mindful of what your input is, uh, because definitely what your input is, you know, will determine what your output is. Uh, it will, it's a hard slog if you don't have that environment, uh, where you can thrive and where you can kind of be proud to share your celebrations and your wins and, and things that are going well for you and, and, and ask for support if you need it.
[00:28:32] Um, I
[00:28:33] Liam: love that that kind of brings us full circle to, that is exactly what, uh, your property network is. It's having that network of, of, of people around you who will ultimately help you to succeed, which is an amazing way to, to draw it to a close. So, uh, Michelle, thank you so much for, for coming on and.
[00:28:50] For those who want to get in touch with yourself and at YP n we will have the, uh, links in the show notes. Obviously we've got a couple, which if somebody's listening to the podcast here, [00:29:00] if you go to Link Tree, which is l i n kt dot e e slash eva, Michelle Ks and that's, Sorry, Michelle Kuns, isn't it? And that is spelled c a s Michelle, which is m i c h.
[00:29:15] Double L E C A I R N S. Um, and then if not, if you go again to tre uh, slash your property network. Um, and there's a couple of other links which we'll also include in the show notes as well. Um, any closing comments from yourself before we draw things to a close? Michelle?
[00:29:34] Michelle: Uh, uh, no. Just to say, um, yeah, it's, Thank you so much for having s and.
[00:29:39] Yeah, it's been great to be here today and do connect with me if you are connecting with me on social media. Do drop me line and say, you know, you've been watching this. Um, so, uh, yeah, it'd be good to actually know where, where everyone comes from.
[00:29:53] Liam: I'm sure you're gonna get a lot of people reaching out and, uh, interested in the, uh, rent total essay course and, uh, find out more [00:30:00] just about how they can profit with, with property in general.
[00:30:03] So, um, thanks again and uh, yeah. Bye for. Five, having a blast. Gonna get out on the Bruce Lee podcast.
[00:30:10] Michelle: Bruce Lee led Bruce Lee cuz it's so hard on the tees. Loose leaf. Making up those rhymes. Don't write it just to it loosely.
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