In this episode of the Boostly podcast, Mark and guest TJ talk about the rising popularity of boutique hotels in the hospitality industry. The Covid-19 pandemic has impacted the traditional hotel sector, with many owners selling their properties to those with experience in running a successful hospitality business. People are also pivoting to short-term rental properties, such as boutique hotels.
TJ shares his experience of moving from long-term to short-term rentals in the real estate industry. He started in 2015 and discovered the potential of short-term rentals at the end of 2017. He recalls how nerve-wracking it was setting up his first short-term rental, but the experience has taught him a lot about the business.
TJ is based in Houston, Texas, where he runs a training program and hosts regular masterclasses to share his knowledge. He is a proponent of the short-term rental strategy and will be holding a big summit in Houston this year.
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Timestamps (audio)
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Transcript from the Episode
[00:00:00] Mark: Welcome to the Boostly podcast, where we give hosts all over the world, the tools, the tactics are training, and the confidence to increase their dire bookings. And today I wanted to tap into the hotels versus Airbnb sort of thing that's flying around on social media at the moment. When you get into this industry, uh, and you're in a short term rental business, maybe you pick up property number one from whatever means.
An introduction to Hotels versus Airbnb
[00:00:20] Mark: Maybe you've owned it, maybe you've advertised it, maybe you're doing the co-host, whatever you're trying to do. But as you grow and as you scale, you. Be more aware of different models, different verticals to go down. And one of the route is, uh, hotels, boutique hotels, and this is what my guest today has done.
[00:00:37] Mark: Um, hotels are back, back to 2018, 2019 demand and with. Covid and everything that happened during there when HO Hotels had to shut down, more people were made more aware of vacation rentals, thanks to no cruises and all of those things, right? And so many people got into this game because they were on a long-term rental basis. [00:00:56] Mark: They show the gains from. Short term rentals and dived into the market. And there's so many people that got involved and it's what we're gonna talk about today. The cream always rises to the top, and we'll talk about this today, but the one thing that is coming back is hotels now because of this and because of, um, traditional hotels, um, becoming.
[00:01:17] Mark: Outdated. Maybe there's not enough young people coming into the industry and it just means that there's a lot of owners right now that are just tired and want to sell. And people with the systems and the structures in place that um, know how to run a very successful hospitality business are going into hotels.
[00:01:32] Mark: They're picking them up, they're requiring them. And they are pivoting 'em and changing them to a more of a short term mental, um, method. And this is what our guest today has done. The, the, the topic is about boutique hotels, what they are, uh, how to get involved, the benefits of it. And there are so many pros and the big lessons that, that TJ has learned along the way.
[00:01:52] Mark: Do you wanna find out more about TJ? Go check him out on Instagram. Uh, he's got a fantastic training program. His Instagram account is packed full of knowledge, uh, and he holds regular, uh, Masterclass where you can find out so, so much more. He's got a, a big summit coming up in Houston this year.
[00:02:08] Mark: Uh, following on from success of 2022. He's one to watch and more, and I'm so excited to get him back onto the boostly podcast to talk about boutique hotels. So strap yourself in, get a pen and paper out. Make sure to make notes. Make sure you like this video, make sure you subscribed, do all of the things, but most importantly, make sure you share it and tell a host.
Introducing TJ
[00:02:27] Mark: Um, I'm excited to learn about Brandon. I'm excited for you to learn about all of the things, uh, without further ado. Let me flip it over. And, uh, let's speak with tj. Hi tj. Uh, first and foremost, can you just please give us a super quick intro, um, all about retinal Panera, about you, where you are in the world, and, uh, we'll get, we'll get stuck in and talk about boutique.
[00:02:48] Tj: Oh man, well, TJ to Johnny the Preneur. Um, and here in Houston, Texas, uh, here in big Texas. Uh, and, you know, my, my real estate journey has been interesting, but I've been in real estate, um, since 2015 is when I bought my first rental property. And I did long-term traditional rentals, uh, for a few years, and then I found short-term rental strategy right at the tail end of 2017.
[00:03:11] Tj: And I haven't looked back ever since. The short-term rental strategy is, When, I remember when I first launched, my very first unit was a house that I purchased. I fixed it up, I refinanced it, and I furnished it. And I remember how nerve-wracking it was. I had about $14,000 worth of furniture in this house, and boxes were everywhere.
[00:03:30] Tj: And I was like, man, what am I doing? Uh, why am I doing this? I, I think I'm kind of in way over my head. Um, but then I, I saw it through and I'll never forget the day I launched it. Um, I didn't get a booking that day, but I got an inquiry that day. Inquiry was just a question and with my level of excitement, just cuz I wanted this person to book the property so bad, um, nobody booked it that day, but I woke up the next day with two confirmed reservations.
[00:03:55] Tj: When I did the math, I saw the cashflow potential with this and the potential of it. Earning more at minimum two, three times what my, what I would've made if it was a traditional rental. Just from those two bookings, I was able to run those numbers and that's what has caused me to not look back from short-term rentals.
[00:04:12] Tj: Um, and this has been a strategy that has, that has really saved me. It's changed my life and I love the fact that I get to grow this business. Um, the, the way that we've been growing. It also show people how to do this business the right way as well. So, yeah. Um, so.
[00:04:28] Mark: You never forget your first guest. You never forget your first inquiry.
[00:04:32] Mark: You know, and it's, and it's one of them like seven years in now. And you know, you, you're doing a lot of, doing a lot of firsts and this is why I wanted to get you on now and well, I wanted to get you on and particularly talk about the sort of the new venture where you're, you're sort of taking the traditional short term rental and combining it with the more traditional hotel and combining it for boutique hotels.
[00:04:53] Mark: So, I want to get you one because you are right in the midst of it. Like you have got all of the things going on and it's super cool that you can come on and chat to us about. So the first question is, what exactly is a boutique hotel?
[00:05:06] Tj: Uh, well, boutique hotel is kind of your, you know, some mo some people, if you talk to people in the hotel world, they will say they don't even consider it boutique if boutique un if it's not under like 80 keys, right?
[00:05:19] Tj: So we'll say some, we'll consider it something smaller, um, but more of your family style. Cute. Um, a boutique hotel you'll find has more of an experience. A boutique hotel you'll find, tend to have more themes associated with it than a traditional flagship hotel. Um, but what a boutique hotel is great because, um, for me this was something that I kind of fell into.
[00:05:45] Tj: Um, I kind of discovered that like, okay, this is something that could yield me a mo that can even take what I'm doing right now or take it to a whole nother level. And so, And so with a boutique hotel, there's so much range with it. There's so much experiences that you can have with your boutique hotels.
[00:06:01] Tj: Right now, we're already thinking about things like having our own brand and products, right? If you look at a traditional flagship hotel, a lot of times, especially when you say a really nice ones, they have. Things that are branded for themselves, right? Maybe it could be coffees, even the bottled waters, maybe sometimes. [00:06:15] Tj: And why not? Why can't you build a own brand for something like that if you are growing a portfolio of boutique hotels? So the amount of range that comes with the strategy, um, has always been amazing as well.
[00:06:26] Mark: Um, you're definitely right. And I remember back to our family business, we even created a range of.
[00:06:31] Mark: You know, we just wiped it. We put our own beer and we created our own hashtag. Like there's so many potential that what you can do with a, with a hotel in terms of branding, in terms of people remembering you and it, you know, there's so many touchpoints too that, which is very exciting. I'm really excited to see how are you going to break it down?
[00:06:47] Mark: So the different boutique hotels you've got running up, are you running it under a brand? Are they gonna have their own identities? Like what's the general theme or feeling that you've got going on?
Break down the Branding
[00:06:56] Tj: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, it, it was initially and kind of my thoughts have kind of changed on this a few times actually.
[00:07:02] Tj: Um, I was thinking about running all of them under one brand and, but if I'm want to truly create a boutique experience, I realize that it may be a good idea if they each had their own identity, right? But I can still. Run everything under one, um, under one family, right? I can still run in terms of operations.
[00:07:20] Tj: So the way we plan on doing it is we're gonna have our operation entity, um, that's going to run it, but then each building will have its own identity. So if we have one called, Um, Samson's Corner. That Samson's Corner, um, which, you know, has a 15, 15 units. Um, but it's ran by to Johnny Suites or it's ran by my current company, home Suite.
[00:07:43] Tj: Right. So it just kind of depends. And so we plan on kind of giving it that, that kind of branding. Um, but, but yeah, we'll definitely plan on running it, um, off a solid PMs. We want, we, we, we, we went with one solid one, which we're going with Guesty, which I know a lot of folks that have done this business at scale go with Guesty and for good reason.
[00:08:00] Tj: So, um, so, so, yeah. Yeah. Sure.
[00:08:03] Mark: So watch out Marritt. Here comes, uh, TJ Tejan, got 30 different brands, you know, so, uh, I like it. You've got one core brand and you've got each individual, because again, you make it Google
[00:08:14] Tj: Googleable. Right? Exactly, exactly. And this way you can actually give kind of each one its own identity in terms of, uh, like its own website, right.
[00:08:23] Tj: It's home brand. Um, but it can still have the same kind of. Um, IDE identity in terms of operations across all of them. Um, so, so that's kind of the mindset going into it. A hundred
[00:08:35] Mark: percent. Love it. Um, alright then, so the, the, I think the next question would be, obviously you said you came this just by total coincidence, by, by mistake.
[00:08:44] Mark: Like, what was the actual story behind, behind this? I feel I've heard this story before, but I would love for you to share it with the Boothy peoples because it's a, it's a, it's, it's, it's a.
[00:08:55] Tj: Well, you know, you know for me is, is scaling my short-term rental business. Um, my first short-term rental I owned was a single family house and I didn't even get educated on the arbitrage strategy until I got into this business.
[00:09:07] Tj: Then I learned that you can arbitrage and so, which I think that kind of bolded me well because I was so. Much so headstrong on ownership. My who I was as a real estate investor prior to getting in short-term rentals, I think bolded me well as well because it made me kind of put a focus on owning more of my short-term rental assets, even though I love, love, love arbitrage, but I feel arbitrage is a cash flow play versus owning as a cash flow and.
[00:09:32] Tj: Wealth play, right? So for me, for me, when I learned about rental arbitrage, that's when I started doing rental arbitrage. And so I started burning both ends of the candle because the way I saw it, it was like, why not? And I know a lot of people were focused on either one route, but for me, if I can purchase real estate leveraging, Other people's money leveraging the same way I was purchasing my traditional rental properties, but just converting them to short-term rentals, buying them with my time, meaning I'm putting in time to do the remodel.
[00:09:59] Tj: We're putting in time to make these properties beautiful. I will buy with my time and while I was remodeling these properties, I'll pick up more arbitrage units and, and signing leases on, on, on, on this end of it. So then that's how I was able to scale both sides. Then I started buying small multifamilies, which is two to four units, and in, in scaling to two to four units, I.
[00:10:18] Tj: Thing I realized that I liked this multiple doors in one location kind of situation because for one, I realized I could make more money. How? Because I can rent each individual unit as one or I can rent them out together. And if I rented 'em out together, I was always able to charge a lot more money.
[00:10:35] Tj: Then I was realized that I can create, uh, uh, experiences, right? And I realized how much easier the management was when multiple doors are in one location, how things are a lot more streamlined. I realized how much inventory management's a lot. When you have multiple doors at one central location. So then I said, man, I wanna just start doing this.
[00:10:52] Tj: You know, maybe if I could just start doing these motels, but I could just start doing small motels. And, and that's kind of what turned the light bulb on for boutique hotels. And then I started looking for kind of these mom and pop motels that you would find. Um, a lot of 'em were pretty rundown because.
[00:11:06] Tj: Because they have a very old, traditional way of running them. A lot of 'em were dated. And it's not that I wasn't finding the deals. The issue I was having was the way I was able to take these deals down. Um, for one, a lot of lenders weren't willing to lend. Want really to gimme the capital to fund on these deals because for one, a lot of these owners didn't then get, keep paperwork, right?
[00:11:27] Tj: So their paperwork was sucked, a lot of, and then on top of that I realized that the lending requirement when you wanna fund hotels are a lot more stringent than traditional real estate lending requirements. And so, um, . And so then I said, okay, let me just start. Let me, how about I just purchase a regular apartment complex that's a lot easier to fund, and then I'll just convert those into the boutique hotels that I envisioned.
[00:11:50] Tj: And so that's kind of what, what allowed me to open my eyes to say, okay, I'm gonna just buy apartment complex and just convert them to a boutique hotel. And I executed at the play when I, when I saw, when I came out across an opportunity for my first 13 unit building, I executed the play on that one. And, uh, man, what a, what a, what a decision that was.
[00:12:07] Tj: So that's how. This whole boutique hotel play kind of came about and I'll, I'll say Mark, I will say it and, and may you know, I could be wrong. Let me not say definitively, but I'm pretty close that I might have been one of the first people to start talking about boutique hotels because I know it's very, very popular right now.
[00:12:25] Mark: know you were, because we had a conversation about a year ago where, We were talking about your website, the dire booking. . Yeah. Right. Just listen, just hold fire because you know, I wanna do it, but I wanna do it for, for these hotels we're trying to get over the line and it's like Absolutely. Uh, which, which, yeah. [00:12:41] Mark: And I totally can see it. And, and, and the benefits are massive. You, you talk about operations, right? When, when you've got a, a property but's, , everything's in one big building, operations wise for cleaners, for, you know, inventory. It's, it's simple. It's just all stored there, you know. Um, what has been the other wins that you didn't expect before pulling the trigger that as sort of you're starting to tweak and go, oh, this is actually a win.
[00:13:04] Mark: Because like, when, when it comes to hotels, instead of having like five properties spread all around Houston mm-hmm. , you've got 10, 12, 20 rooms, doors all in. Plot of land, so to speak. What? What's that other things that you are finding apart from like obviously the main. .
TJ’s additional wins
[00:13:20] Tj: Oh yeah. I mean, well, we talked about the main one earlier, right?
[00:13:22] Tj: Uh, inventory management's easier. I think the, the kind of experiences you can provide is different as well. Um, and the kind and, and what I mean by that and that, that, that goes in different ranges as well. Well, for one, um, you can provide. Different experience to larger groups of people. Like we're already getting inquiries for corporate events, um, large corporate events.
[00:13:42] Tj: We're getting inquiries for large wedding parties that just want to, you know, they're, they're considering, oh, we have a huge wedding party. If our entire party can just stay at this one location for the three days we'll be here. That'll just. That'll just be amazing. So, um, but you can't do that if you're not running this kind of play, right?
[00:13:57] Tj: If you're not having a lot of units in one location, then also think about how you can manipulate your calendars as well. Um, because, because you have multiple doors in one location. Say you have a few orphan days and, and within, uh, uh, uh, uh, a particular week and maybe you get a booking on another week that you want to leave, uh, have a.
[00:14:17] Tj: Possibly to leave open, you can move that booking over to another listing, potentially freeing up the calendar for another listing for a longer term booking, or even more, more, more money. So the ability to move guests around to manipulate your calendar is also a big plus when you have multiple doors in one location.
[00:14:32] Mark: It's tapping into things that hotels have done so well for so long. Exactly. Bringing it into short term rental world, like, like you say, say for, for whatever reason on the day of a guest checking. There's something wrong with the room, the water, the electricity, or whatever it could be. You can quickly, with a hotel moving from room one to room two, and then on the wiser, try doing that in a short term rental.
[00:14:55] Mark: the kickoff would be, would be huge. Like you talk about big bookings. Um, absolutely. And you'll be amazed at. , you know, how much more money per room, per day would be willing to pay for, say a wedding. You know, a wedding is a massive experience. It's, you know, once maybe, you know, once in a lifetime, potentially maybe a couple of times.
[00:15:13] Mark: And it's like when, when, when that happens, the much more revenue per night just shoots through the shoots for. Absolutely. And as well, we're sort of mid, medium term rentals now is start coming very, very popular. Uh, and you've got people that are coming in and big groups of, big groups of workers coming in for like a, a contract job or whatever.
[00:15:31] Mark: You've got your private parking, you've got all the security, you can block 'em up and they take care of.
[00:15:36] Tj: Think about a absolutely, man. Think about a, like even flagship hotels right now, a lot of the flagship hotels and like, think about their extended state products. Usually their extended state products tend to have, you know, full kitchen, um, usually tend to be a little bit bigger and they tend to have a kind of a small kitchenette, but it's usually a full kitchen.
[00:15:54] Tj: Why? Because they're staying extendedly. Right. And so with you having a a, a property like the, the kind of assets we like to buy, we convert these buildings to short-term rentals, full size kitchens, units are a whole lot bigger, but that's just a different kind of ballgame and the potential to garner more mid-term stays.
[00:16:13] Tj: Now you're putting yourself into position to get it, to get a lot of those stays for sure.
[00:16:17] Mark: And am I right in thinking when you go down the route of boutique hotels, you don't have to worry about regulations as much as if you're a short-term rental? Is that another one of the benefits? Yeah,
Benefits of the boutique hotel route
[00:16:26] Tj: that, that definitely is another one of the benefits.
[00:16:28] Tj: Um, and a lot of times, um, depending on the market, that may not even be a zoning required. Like the markets I'm in. But even some of the ones that do have requirements, it's a lot easier to actually just get the zoning for that. Even if there's no zoning in that particular area, you can still apply and get it if you're operating like that.
[00:16:46] Tj: If you're operating, um, as a business, as a hotel, not just oh, Airbnb. Right? And so it's, it is kind of a different ballgame. Um, you'll 100% be able to navigate, um, a lot of these regulations a whole lot. .
[00:17:00] Mark: I know there's gonna be a lot of people watching this, listening this, who may be starting out thinking, I wanna go into the hotel game, but you gotta walk before you can run.
[00:17:08] Mark: You know what I mean? Where your arbitrage model and the, the method that you teach now is part of, you know, preneur, et cetera, is fantastic because you build this up, you get your cash flow, you maybe look to join venture of a few people and who knows that. Then you can walk to this. But this is, this is fantastic.
[00:17:22] Mark: Sort of next level, like level five, level six in the entrepreneurial journey of when you get to that, and you're ready to sort of take that next step. This is perfect to look at in your portfolio, so really appreciate you coming into this. Now for people who are just getting started, um, tell us a little bit more about the coaching.
[00:17:39] Mark: Tell us a little bit more about, um, , how it works, how we can find out more. And then just very quickly talk about the next step, which is your summit that you put on last year, the event that you put on, and like the plans for 2023. If anything you've got to share on that would be
The 2023 Summit
[00:17:52] Tj: much appreciated. Oh, man.
[00:17:53] Tj: Absolutely, man. Absolutely. Well, I'll tell you what, um, we have, you know, one of the, what I feel, and I feel like, you know, when you are, when you consider yourself somebody who's a student of the game and what you do, and you consider yourself one of the best at what you do, um, you also by default want.
[00:18:10] Tj: Produce the most successful people, um, in this business. Right. And it's always interesting when people ask me like, tj, why do you teach this business? Aren't you creating more competition in the marketplace? There's more and more people doing Airbnb. Trust me, there's, we do not have a shortage of people doing it.
[00:18:25] Tj: Right. , when I tell you, we do not have a shortage Yes. Of people doing this business the right way. Think about it. Even when, when guests right now, and I, and I'll throw this in there when guests right now, cuz you may hear things about guests kind of moving back towards the, the hospitality of the traditional hotels and whatnot.
[00:18:40] Tj: Um, so things are kind of becoming, uh, hotels are kind of, you know, you, you'll hear stuff about hotels and Airbnb and things like that and guests are, are, are, are going, going to hotels if won't go to hotels. If there are guests, if there are people that book an Airbnb and then essentially go back to booking hotels is because.
[00:18:56] Tj: of one or two reasons. They had a bad experience and they're not having enough, consistently good experiences on the platform. Right? And so that tells you something, that tells you that we still need good, consistent experience on this platform because there should be no reason why people using Airbnb and then decide that they wanna go back to a hotel because us as host or keep dropping the ball.
[00:19:20] Tj: Right? And so and so what? What I love to. In this business as comp competent hosts, investors that ha ho, that have their identity as an operator hone in. And our goal is to help hone that identity in via all the, all the, um, the right course content that you'll need. One of the big things that I think is very crucial right now to master, especially on an acquisition perspective, is creative financing.
[00:19:46] Tj: Creative financing. There's a very, very amazing. Kind of marriage. There's this amazing intersection right now with creative financing and short-term rentals, how you can purchase a property, for example, via lease options and exiting with a short-term rental, buying a property subject to an exiting via short-term rental.
[00:20:04] Tj: And I can be, and I, I, I'm. Exactly excited about the fact that before I started doing Shortterm rentals, I was a real estate investor closing these kind of transactions on a daily, doing sh doing uh, lease option deals, doing subject two deals. We were Ben doing owner finance deals and now we're able to kind of merge the two with this intersect with credit financing and shortterm rentals.
[00:20:22] Tj: And so I say all that to say. Is that along with the knowledge that people get from our, from our, uh, mastermind, our mentorship is the knowledge of not just Shortterm Rental as a business because you will learn how to do it the right way as a business, the proper way to structure your short-term rentals, along with the right acquisition strategies, creative financing, which we're heavy on in our community peak.
[00:20:43] Tj: Uh, our students are closing creative financing sub two deals. Lease option deals and exiting with the short-term, round strategy and scaling their portfolio that way. Along with that, then it's the meetups. I think a lot of times with, with Mastermind, the most valuable thing is when we get together, right?
[00:20:56] Tj: When we get together, you get to learn not just from me but other experts in the industry. We meet on a weekly basis, uh, two meetings a week. We gonna meet twice. I wanna meet you to answer all your questions every single week. I wanna meet you to hold you accountable as well. We have a whole accountability meeting, uh, sessions that we.
[00:21:12] Tj: Um, along with that, you're gonna sit with experts, expert attorneys, expert CPAs that can help you structure your business, that can help you manage your business from a bookkeeper perspective as well. You're gonna deal with experts that'll help you take the guesswork out of where to start. Where do I get this thing going?
[00:21:26] Tj: I, we have the people right there to tell you like, Hey, this, these are the best zip codes based on analysis. These are the best zip codes, performance, zip codes in your marketplace. We pro, the entire mastermind is crafted to, to literally give you everything that you need from a knowledge perspective, community perspective, coaching perspective, right?
[00:21:44] Tj: Only thing that'll be missing is you. It's not this, that everything else work. Everything works is do you work, right? And so that's the only, that's the only piece, missing piece that you will need to go crazy in this business and just the real estate in general. I know I was winded, but I get super passionate about this thing.
[00:21:59] Mark: Mark . No, massively. You're right. I love, I love what you said right at the very start, is that the core message is the cream will always rise to the top. Yeah. And there will. Bad eggs. There will be so many people who drop out of short-term rentals this year. And a, and a large, large level because they maybe got in into it at the wrong time or the wrong message or the wrong reasons.
[00:22:22] Mark: And with training like yourself, and I've been part of it, you know, I'm very lucky to be able to dip in every now and again and sort of like lend a, like a market and a hand to this and I see it. It's fantastic. And. . You know what you want when you join a program is you want accountability. You don't want it to be just like any other program that you join, cuz there are a lot of people that have that shiny object sort of thing, and they've just gotta join 5 55, all these sort of things.
[00:22:43] Mark: Yep. And they never implement. So key part of it is that, and so yeah, really, really glad. You're doing it. Uh, thank for doing it and, uh, looking forward to being part of it, um, in a Oh, yes. Yes.
[00:22:55] Tj: And you definitely, and you definitely, no, you're wishing you mentioned the summit earlier cuz you're definitely gonna be a part of that this year too.
[00:23:00] Tj: Um, the summit this year is happening in 2023. We had our first annual preneur summit last year. Insane. Um, Turn out the impact was crazy. I'm still, still kind of at a high from what that event did, um, for people's lives, for people's businesses, the kind of relationships, the connections that were made at that event.
[00:23:22] Tj: And so by default, , we are 100% bringing a preneur summit back, um, as largely requested by a lot of, by a lot of folks. And so be on a lookout for that as well. Tentative, tentative months. I, I don't know if I should even throw out mu Marcus. It's not, I, I ain't sign, I, you know, saying when, when, when? You ain't even locked it in.
[00:23:40] Tj: Like the sign of paperwork is hard to just kind say, yeah,
[00:23:44] Mark: you get on, get on the Instagram, get on TJ's Instagram, get on their wait. And just do all the things and we'll get all the links where all those need to be. But yeah, very big things happening. Um, hey, really pleasure to check in as always. Um, looking forward to checking in more and, um, watching, watching all of us and unfold behind the, behind the scenes and, you know, getting all the websites up and helping you all that.
[00:24:07] Mark: I'm excited. So well done. Massive steps. Massive. Such a pleasure to watch the journey unfold, uh, from from behind us. Thank you. Cheering on. So I, uh, if anybody could just go one place and one place only to, to check out your best stuff, where would that be?
[00:24:22] Tj: Uh, one place, one place only. Ig Go ahead. Follow your boy.
[00:24:25] Tj: Go ahead. Follow boy. Instagram, uh, at t j to Johnny. That's at t j t i j a N I. If you decide to just type your preneur, I'll, I'll j I'll I'm sure I'll pop up as well. So , either way.
[00:24:40] Mark: Having a blast. Can I get it on the Bruce Lee podcast, Bruce Lee led Bruce Lee
[00:24:44] Tj: cuz it's so hard. On the tee is loose leaf making up those rhymes.
[00:24:48] Tj: Don't write it, just do it loosely.
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