Welcome to Boostly Podcast Episode 554.
In this Boostly podcast episode, Mark interviews Jamie from AirDNA, who shares how hosts can use their platform to check out rates, performance, and invest in new markets.
AirDNA is a worldwide company with offices in Europe and the US, offering data insights on short-term rentals. Boostly members get an exclusive discount on any paid AirDNA product.
Jamie shares some new features coming to AirDNA, including the integration of booking.com data and the ability to index live rates from AirDNA into property management software.
Jamie is the VP of Research at AirDNA and helps clients to understand how to use data to inform their business.
The interview focuses on how hosts should use AirDNA to check leads, looking at the typical things to consider and the numbers to be aware of when considering investing in a new market.
AirDNA has a large subscriber base in the UK, with many hosts using the platform to inform their business decisions. The podcast also explores the market and what's expected in the coming year.
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Timestamps (audio)
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Transcript from the Episode
[00:00:00] Mark: Welcome back to the Boostly podcast. We've got something very cool today. Uh, we've got Jamie from AirDNA joining us, and Jamie is going to walk through the backend of AirDNA. It's gonna go through the most important parts that you need to check out when you're looking at rates, performance or investing in a new market.
[00:00:21] Um, make sure you check the Des. Below, above or wherever, because every Boostly member gets an exclusive discount when they sign up to any of the paid AirDNA discounts, which is super cool. So aird.co. Go and check it out. Go and register. Um, if you wanna purchase your local neighborhood or if you wanna purchase a wider area, you can do so a reduced race that's exclusive to boley.
[00:00:44] So go and find the coupon code it's above or Belong, or I'll even get it up on the screen right now in the edit of what that may be. But as soon as you do, go and do it, because there are some amazing, amazing new features coming into AirDNA this year. They're going to start bringing in booking.com, uh, data, which is [00:01:00] going to take the game up.
[00:01:00] They've got. Some really big features come in. Plus as well, they're gonna be able to index your live rates from AD A into your property management software tool as well. So good things come in, uh, really, uh, we have a really interesting input into the pro dashboard at one point, and if you were to freeze frame it enough, you'll get everything that you need from that.
[00:01:22] And that's the data that ota's are getting, which. A very expensive product, so I really appreciate Jamie sharing that with us today. Let's get on with it. It's action packed. It's about an hour long, but has so much good in us. You'll thank me later. Okay, Jamie, uh, thank you very much for doing this. If you could just give us a little bit of background about yourself and, and how you came into the world of AirDNA.
[00:01:43] And then what we're gonna do is we're gonna dive in, share the screen, and we're gonna look behind the hood, under the hood of AirDNA, which, uh, which I'm excited to .
[00:01:52] Jamie: Awesome. Yeah. So I joined AirDNA back in, uh, October of 2020. Uh, I was actually a client of AirDNA back [00:02:00] from. 2015, uh, working in the hotel industry and doing, uh, research on the US hotel industry and, and forecasts and helping our clients understand, and at the time was what the impact, this whole thing called short-term rentals was gonna have on traditional hotels.
[00:02:17] And then got in deep to the AirDNA dataset and decided to join them full-time. So now, uh, VP of research and spend my day looking at data and helping our clients understand how to best use that data to help inform their business.
[00:02:33] Mark: Fantastic. Uh, I'm really looking forward to today cause we're gonna obviously wanna dig in under the hood, so to speak, of air d a So if anybody's never used it before, or even if you've used it a lot, uh, I would really wanna try and uncover, um, some maybe features that you never knew of before.
[00:02:47] And then we're gonna look more to maybe the market and what's gonna be happening over the course of this year, which is exciting. So, yeah. So let's delve in if you, if you don't mind, if you. Share your screen. So what we're gonna do is I've asked, uh, Jamie just to give [00:03:00] us, um, a bit of data on, on leads. So I think our dna, you know, rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly, maybe people assume that it is just an American thing, right?
[00:03:09] But this, obviously there's worldwide company, uh, they've got offices, um, in Europe as well as, uh, America. And I wanted to focus on leads because a lot of the people that tune into the podcast are obviously, Space, maybe, uh, Europe based. And I wanted to just have a little look and Jamie just, uh, this is the beautiful thing is that we can have Jamie on here and go, right, well, this is what you need to be looking for.
[00:03:30] So when you're ready. Um, what's the sort of typical things and, and how should a host be using it when looking at leads, for example, as a potential area where they want to, um, maybe invest in and, and the numbers that they should be? . Yeah.
[00:03:45] Jamie: So to start with is, is, uh, when I think about the uk, uh, and it's, and one of, uh, the countries with our largest subscriber base.
[00:03:56] Uh, so we do have a lot of [00:04:00] subscribers, uh, coming from the uk. Uh, we actually, uh, late LA or in 2021 did a remap of the entire. So what, before we had like 600 different cities that you subscribe to or could subscribe to. Uh, we boiled that down to 53 markets. Uh, and these are sort of, um, bigger chunks of the country that you could then subscribe to and get a better sense of the trends happening within.
[00:04:28] Um, and you can click through all around to those. So if you wanted to subscribe to the peak, , you could actually subscribe to the Peak, peak district, the Lake District, so you're not sort of, uh, um, limited to just individual cities, but broader. Uh, what I think of them is vacation rental markets. So where are people looking to travel?
[00:04:49] Uh, so you can get, understand, uh, understanding if you're, uh, looking at a region to invest in, or if you've got, and broadly a, an area that you're operating in. Um, [00:05:00] you can start more broad and then dive in, uh, deeper. So I'm gonna start here. Um, we're in the lead Sheffield market. Um, and then, uh, we can look specifically at the trends within this broader.
[00:05:14] Of which, and it's dominated by both leads and Sheffield. Um, I did a bit of digging in, uh, prior to the call, um, and, and these markets have had an entirely different performance. Um, and, uh, over the past couple years, uh, Sheffield really dominated, I think by people going to the peak district and it being a sort of a jumping off.
[00:05:38] Uh, where demand has been, uh, very strong, uh, full recovery, um, back to 2019 levels, uh, where leads has, has really lagged. Um, and as of, uh, 2022, uh, demand was still about, uh, 7%, uh, below 2019 levels. Uh, and a lot of that [00:06:00] was dominated by, um, um, summer performance. Uh, so, uh, Four leads and, and we can get into this where you can start to see I, what the, uh, trends are, uh, by month.
[00:06:15] Um, and we break out the data in a bunch of different ways to, I p understand, uh, where the strength of the market is, maybe where some of the weakness is. Uh, so, uh, when you start looking at the trends, you see that, um, uh, July and August, uh, we're typically in the strongest month, and where, and most of the revenues being generated, uh, because we're not back and fully back in terms of supply.
[00:06:43] Uh, the market has enabled to been able to achieve, um, sort of back to 2019 levels. But for the hosts that are in that, . Um, we're essentially at 2019 levels of occupancy, um, and have come [00:07:00] slightly off it, uh, in this past year, uh, as more supplies started to come online as sort of guests have, have started to return.
[00:07:08] Uh, so as we're looking around here, so we can look at specific areas of lead. So we've got, uh, the center city, uh, that you can dig into. Um, And you see there's about a 150 listings, uh, in the sort of sit or city, uh, old city, uh, of leads. Uh, we can compare occupancy, um, we can compare rates. We have a lot of different filters, uh, and the filters is where I suggest people, uh, really dig in at the.
[00:07:41] because ideally you're looking to find, and how am I gonna operate if you're, uh, maybe looking to make a new investment into the, the market, or if you're already operating, trying to find how am I com performing relative to my competition? Uh, so let's say I'm already in there, um, [00:08:00] and now I want to find some really good benchmark statistics.
[00:08:03] Yeah. Uh, to compare how I'm doing compared to maybe, uh, some of the others, uh, in the.
[00:08:10] Mark: I was just gonna ask a super quick question when, mm-hmm. , let's just say, for example, the, um, A free bed property has become available, uh, somewhere in leads. You've been given it like a little, a hint from a friend to saying, Hey, this has become available.
[00:08:24] We think this will be really good for a, a potential. Um, I can see from the, the filters here. You talk about the filters. Let's just say it is a, it is a free bed. Property. What would be some cool things to look at when it, when it comes to like breaking down this, this data, so I can see here you've got bedrooms all at the moment, price tier, all like, how would you, uh, like approach it with the scenario would be like say a free bedroom property has become available in leads and you wanna see if it is a worthwhile to go for the free or maybe should you keep looking for maybe a four or a five bed, just for example?
[00:08:53] Yeah,
[00:08:54] Jamie: so what I would start with, with is our izer tool. and there you're gonna [00:09:00] actually put in the exact address of that property, uh, and it's gonna pull back, uh, comparison, uh, properties. So let's say you said it was a three bedroom, three bath in leaves. Uh, uh, and I'm not, maybe it'll work. Uh,
[00:09:17] Mark: uh, put it a city center.
[00:09:19] Yeah. Just like
[00:09:20] Jamie: example. Um, and I can say three bed, three. And let's say we can accommodate a gu. Yep. So now it's gonna pull back, uh, property comparisons. Uh, so what's sort of operating leads that sort of best matches that comparison. And now you're gonna see Exactly. Okay. And what are comparable properties?
[00:09:44] What are they earning? Uh, so it looks like a lot of these properties earning around, uh, 80% occupa. Uh, something we noticed in the beginning and it had a really high seasonality score. , which means that compared to other markets in the UK it [00:10:00] does not see the wild swings that some of the other markets do.
[00:10:04] Um, maybe, uh, down in Cornwall or, uh, up in the Highlands. So it's, uh, being maybe a, uh, a, a larger city, uh, market. Uh, it's not as, as volatile in terms of monthly seasonality. Uh, and then average adr. So it looks like we're running, um, what about 210 pounds? , if you look at averaging these top ones, and then you'll see, and it's going to average out all the comparisons, um, that we pulled, uh, and give you both, uh, um, um, an average rate for the year and occupancy as well as what would the expected revenue, uh, would be.
[00:10:46] Uh, and then you can see here on the right, uh, how we see has seen that revenue change over time. So, um, one for me, this tells me and [00:11:00] in 2021, the average, and we would've said this property would've earned about, uh, 25,000, uh, pounds. Uh, where today we're saying that's about 50,000 pounds. Uh, so massive increase, uh, in performance over, uh, over the past year.
[00:11:18] Uh, and then you see the seasonality. So when is that revenue gonna be? . Um, and where's the sort of confidence range we have around that? Uh, so you see, and top month is July, uh, but actually a pretty decent shoulder season and leads from really April through to October of generating over, over, uh, 4,000 pounds a month.
[00:11:41] Mark: So the question that I get the most when it comes to things like AirDNA is where exactly do you get your data from? Because it's are great numbers, but it's, is this like, is this just from say, Airbnb and vrbo, I can see the logos, or is this including other elements as well?
[00:11:57] Jamie: Yeah, so it's gonna be our estimated [00:12:00] performance of all properties listed on Airbnb, vrbo, uh, for which, and we're getting the data by monitoring the calendar.
[00:12:09] So which nights are available? Uh, when do those nights go unavailable? And what was the last rate available for that night? Uh, when it went una unavailable. Then we mo model whether it was a booked or block night. Uh, and then sort of store that along with e each reservation. Uh, so even if properties are getting booked direct, We're still gonna be capturing that data because as soon as it gets booked direct, you're still gonna be blocking out those dates, uh, on your calendar.
[00:12:40] Uh, and, and we're looking at to a typical guest booking behavior, to then model whether things are getting booked or blocked. So it's, if it's six months in Cornwall during the winter that someone's blocking out of their calendar. We're gonna see that more than likely as a block, as someone saying, Hey, [00:13:00] I'm not gonna be getting bookings during this time.
[00:13:02] I'm gonna de-list or, uh, block out those dates from my calendar and not saying that it's someone, uh, booking, uh, six months, uh, in Cornwall for a nice winter's day.
[00:13:13] Mark: So just, uh, just to confirm, we don't get any data from booking.com and the booking bookings.
[00:13:19] Jamie: Not yet. Uh, so we actually started scraping them about a year and a half ago.
[00:13:24] Yeah. Um, with the idea of once we load them all in, uh, we need there to be a long enough time series so we can sort of compare and relevant year over year trends. Uh, so it's all in our database and, and we're gonna be rolling it out, uh, in 2023.
[00:13:39] Mark: Fantastic. Um, so the next question would be the izer estimate.
[00:13:45] There goes back to, say 2020. When in fact, does the data roll back too? Is it over a certain sample size or is this based on uh, like years and years and years? Cause obviously you've been going from, from nearly about [00:14:00] 10 years now. So.
[00:14:01] Jamie: Yeah, so we started tracking global performance back in, uh, 2016. Uh, we started tracking the US in the top 150 largest cities in, in 2014.
[00:14:12] Uh, so we can, and we definitely have the ti longest time series of data, uh, in the industry. Uh, and so when you look at just this occupancy chart, you see it goes back to January, 2018. Um, and so we keep, um, in the system here, five years of. So you can see, uh, five years of occupancy, a d r revenue trends. Um, and then we also provide, uh, weekly and daily performance as well.
[00:14:41] And all that data is now downloadable, so you can just hit this download button and ex, uh, export each chart to excel. Lovely.
[00:14:50] Mark: So here's another question. We've got a lot of people who will be tuning into this who may be in, uh, the bed and breakfast or small hotel. [00:15:00] Now seeing that you've come into this from a hotel background of, and when you've been trialing through all of the data, is there anything that a potential bed and breakfast owner or a small hotel owner could get from this?
[00:15:12] Or is this really more speaking to those who are going all in on short term rentals? Medium term rentals? Yeah,
[00:15:18] Jamie: so, and uh, absolutely. I'm getting a sense of, um, and one for me, if I was a hotel operator, small B Airbnb operator, , I would really want to know Ford booking pace of short-term rentals is what I know from operating the short-term or short-term rentals and hotels, is that when people are booking short-term rentals, it's usually well in advance of when they're booking hotels.
[00:15:43] Uh, so that I, if I could, so now I'm looking at lead center. C uh, I can get a sense of what the Ford demand over the next. through August. Yeah. Looks like. So I can see I'm here. Uh, I have more nights booked for [00:16:00] July, uh, what is it, fourth through eighth. Yeah. And leads than I do at any other point in, in time.
[00:16:08] Um, so that would
[00:16:10] Mark: be interesting cause then you could go to Google and go, well, what's happening in leads between the fourth and the eighth? Is there an event? Is there a festival? Is there something like this that you can, like, sort of forward plan, clever.
[00:16:21] Jamie: and you can get a sense of, okay, what rates are people booking at?
[00:16:24] Um, what is the available rate for the average short-term rental? What is getting booked? Uh, and then what was getting booked as of the previous year? So in terms of managing your revenue in that space, uh, yeah, I, I think short-term rental bookings are a, a really strong forward demand indicator for really anyone operating in, in, in the lodging, uh,
[00:16:48] Mark: industry.
[00:16:49] If I'm somebody who isn't yet using Air d n a and if I wanted to get this, this data, do I ha do I purchase blocks of data? As in I would purchase leads in Sheffield and if I wanted to get [00:17:00] Ma Manchester for example, I'd get them Like, how does, how does it work in terms of pricing and getting access to this data?
[00:17:06] Jamie: Yeah, so we do it in two different ways. Uh, one is, uh, By city or submarket. Uh, so you can start really granular, um, or you can go broad. Uh, so if you wanted the entire uk, um, you could subscribe to that. Uh, we also have, uh, the individual regions. Uh, so what is their. 13 different sort of, I call them states.
[00:17:39] You, , you probably have a different, uh, nucla for them. Yeah. Counties. Yeah. Counties. Yeah. Uh, so you could subscribe to the county or, uh, the individual market or, uh, submarket. So we really give you, uh, lots of options there to subscribe to what makes most sense. So you. , um, click on the purchase [00:18:00] button and it shows the sort of range of options.
[00:18:03] So, neighborhood, city, state, um, which, uh, or you could go to the entire, uh, country or even global, go to the
[00:18:13] Mark: take on the globe. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I like that. So again, if you are, for example, there'll be people who are watching this who just wanna be focused on, say, lead city center. So they can just go for the neighborhood.
[00:18:23] The, the city plan was the region that we looked at, and when we, when. Eldon right at the very start. Leaves and Sheffield also covered, um, Huddersfield in a big region, state is obviously like the county, so you're gonna get Yorkshire and Hum, which is, you know, York, that's whole. That's everywhere. Um, and then again, you can choose, so it's, uh, pay monthly.
[00:18:43] So technically people can pay for one month and then it can come back again maybe in a couple of months, et cetera. Or you can save money by just getting the full year and taking full advantage.
[00:18:53] Jamie: Really good. Absolutely. Yep. And, and that's all been a change within like the past three months that we offer those sort [00:19:00] of state and country plans and that we're offering annual discounts.
[00:19:03] So, uh, really trying to be more flexible and not just have, um, individual cities that people have to subscribe to each one to sort of build out what they're interested in. Love
[00:19:13] Mark: it. So, uh, just very quickly going back into, uh, air dna. what, obviously you've been the company now for coming up to three years.
[00:19:22] What are your personal favorite features that are, be behind the, behind the scenes, so to speak?
[00:19:30] Jamie: Yeah. One is that we do, um, uh, pricing. Uh, so you think of the other pricing operators, um, uh, out there to give you sort of, and how you should be charging on a nightly. Most of them charge per property or percent of revenue.
[00:19:48] Uh, we actually include it, uh, with our, uh, our offering. Uh, so, uh, if you just subscribe to a monthly neighborhood plan for lead [00:20:00] center and had five properties, you're gonna be able to set up each of your listings and get nightly pricing for, for each of those. Uh, so you can set your own pricing using our smarts rate rates.
[00:20:13] So we're gonna for, uh, any property you connect, um, be able to, uh, um, suggest rates for any day out into the future. Uh, so what is average getting booked in the market? Uh, and then, uh, what do we suggest on a daily basis that you should be, uh, charging for you, your. Given all the trends that, and we were talking about earlier.
[00:20:37] So what is forward pacing, uh, what rate is getting booked, what isn't, uh, and then, uh, uh, the booking curve for your market. So if you wanna make sure you're sort of, uh, meeting your sort of average occupancy, uh, goals, um, what, how you need to adjust your rates to sort of meet that. Um,
[00:20:56] Mark: quick, a quick question on that, sorry.
[00:20:58] Is, would, [00:21:00] Automatically sync into your pricing system on your property management software, or would you then go in and manually make sure that's all right? Yeah.
[00:21:07] Jamie: Right now it's still a, a manual, um, basis. Uh, we do have the ability for you to export those daily rates, uh, into Excel. Uh, but, and in early 2023, we're, we're, we're gonna be rolling out, um, uh, automated Connect.
[00:21:24] Mark: Cool. So big things come. Big things come. Yeah. things have happened and big things are coming. So just to recap on the big things that have happened, breaking down the pricing, so not just you have to buy like USA or statewide, you can break down neighborhood, et cetera. And then come in very soon. Uh, we talked about, uh, your live rate to be able to sink in straight with your property management software.
[00:21:46] And the other thing that is going to be coming in 2023 was, well, is obviously at the moment it's Airbnb and vrbo, where they get the data from, but we're gonna be adding in booking.com very, very soon as well. So, exciting things have happened and come in [00:22:00] with the world of air d n
[00:22:00] Jamie: a. Yeah. And, and just briefly d my other sort of favorite thing is top properties.
[00:22:06] So if you're sort of bringing a, a property. One of the easiest way to sort of make sure that, uh, you're, uh, gonna be able to compete well and maybe even outperform, is seeing what are the properties doing in that area that you're gonna be competing with that are outperforming the rest. Uh, so what are the amenities that they have?
[00:22:27] What are they offering? Uh, what is sort of the quality? Uh, so that then you. And get a really quick sense of what you need to be to operating in the top percentile, uh, in that area. Very cool.
[00:22:42] Mark: So this all leads nicely into my next sort of realm of questions, is I believe that this year, 2023, we're gonna really see a lot of hosts go down the route of a.
[00:22:56] So in 2022 and the date is show 2020 [00:23:00] was an absolute rebound and a, and a massive curve for many, many reasons. 2021 that didn't sort of slow down. 2022, it started to slow down. But what we sort of noticed is that so many people now have come into this industry. Um, we've got many investors who are doing long-term res.
[00:23:14] Rents who have pivoted their model to short term because they see the return of investment is like way higher than a, than a long term. And we've got loads of people coming into this market, um, like never before. So with that, we've got a ton of people say saturation. I think this year what's gonna happen is we're gonna shake out a lot of the, um, average hosts, hobbyist hosts who didn't really get what this is all about.
[00:23:38] And what's gonna be left with is a lot of middle and. Higher quality hosts. And so I think the higher quality hosts are going to really be the ones that focus on a, on a niche. And this is where I can see this tool being fantastic because let's just say you're in leads and you know the area well, and you've done your research and you know that a lot of people come into this town, uh, business [00:24:00] guests or people that are staying for, you know, not just a few days, but they've, you know, they, they wanna be coming for a couple of weeks.
[00:24:05] So you, your niche is that you'll be able to find. Similar properties like it, and you'll be able to filter it down on bedrooms and you'll be able to look at the, what you believe to be true and then look at the dates to be true. So for example, you can see here that, um, for bedrooms, all filters, et cetera, the length of stay, the majority is being two days.
[00:24:26] If you look at the top, bright and corner, the booking lead time is sort of about 46 days, and the occupancy rate is 64, 64 days. So it's like, how can you bring in this niche that you want to do? How can you. Uh, look to appeal and to attract these. And it may be not that lead city center is the place for you.
[00:24:41] Maybe you need to be looking Lbeck, Watley Chapel, Allen Mainwood, you know, just like a little bit fervor a field. And so this, this is a really, really, really cool, um, route for you. So how could a host, and my question is how could a host who says, [00:25:00] thinks about decor, amenities, and features, how can they use this data to sort of.
[00:25:05] Filter down to find exactly the types of properties that are very similar to theirs and, and find like a, a good price in occupancy. How can we dig in more into these filters, I guess is the question that we're sort of talking about here. Yeah.
[00:25:18] Jamie: So I'll show you what's in the platform now, and then I'll, I'll show you maybe a, a, a, a glimpse into our pro dashboard, uh, that we have people using now that, and sort of gives a better sense of some of the features and functionalities that, that that's coming.
[00:25:33] One is when you're going and setting, uh, your, uh, property comparisons. Uh, so, uh, and you can do this, uh, and to start with two. Uh, and when you go and connect and go and start searching for comps, uh, you're gonna be able to, uh, filter two comps that have, and the specific amenities that, that your property has.[00:26:00]
[00:26:00] Um, so, um, Uh, so I'm gonna go to, uh, let's say this, uh, property, uh, sun lit, uh, bungalow.
[00:26:13] Mark: Good vibes. Good vibes, and lots of wine. That's a, that's not my attention already, .
[00:26:18] Jamie: And so when I go and set my comp set, Uh, I can, we're going to go ahead and suggest, uh, properties that look, uh, closest, uh, to you based on distance, based on forward occupancy, uh, a d r, uh, et cetera.
[00:26:36] Uh, but then you can go in and set, um, a very detailed, um, um, uh, filters. So, bedroom, bathroom, guest counts, max. Ratings reviews. So let's say you're running a four, nine star business. Yeah. Uh, you only want properties pulling back that have four, eight and above. [00:27:00] Um, let's say you want to get rid of properties that don't have a significant review history.
[00:27:04] Uh, and then you can also, let's say you've got a hot tub, um, um, and you don't have a. So I wanna pull back, uh, listings that have a hot tub but don't have a pool. Uh, cuz those are gonna be meaningful in terms of the rate that I'm able to charge in that market. Um, I'm not a whole lot of hot tubs in Atlanta, so it didn't pull back a filter, but you can imagine it would, it would bring, bring back that list.
[00:27:34] Yeah. Uh, for new investments. So that's great. When finding, um, comparable properties, uh, we have our sort of new pro dashboard that I built. . Um, and this allows a much di uh, deeper dive into, um, finding comparable properties that have certain amenities where you can really understand what the impact of those [00:28:00] amenities are, uh, and, um, so you can find the right investment and make sure that you're differentiating yourself.
[00:28:06] So, um, I've here now already sort of filtered down to the leads, uh, area. I can then, uh, click on market summary, and this is gonna give me a monthly history over time. Um, for ease of use, I'm gonna, um, sort of aggregate this now by, uh, annual performance. Uh, so you can see, uh, annual occupancy, a adr, rev. And now I can start doing, um, analysis of what is the impact of all these different amenities on my occupancy and adr.
[00:28:48] Uh, so let's say I wanna pull back and find properties, uh, with a pool, uh, and see what the impact that is on rates. So we see roughly $67. [00:29:00] Uh, and then, uh, if it doesn't have a. What that may mean. So it says 106. So this immediately tells me, , uh, given that those numbers were totally unreasonable is that I need to, uh, apply all of my other filters first.
[00:29:15] So I need to get down to, uh, entire home listings. Yeah, probably similar bedroom counts. Uh, so I can comparing, liked for like properties, uh, and then I can really start to understand what the impact is of, of different amenities and, and what that might mean.
[00:29:32] Mark: So just a quick question. Um, when it comes to average length of.
[00:29:36] is there an option there to filter out those that are maybe looking for medium term rentals, 30 days, days, et cetera? Is that, is that an option to get a fair indication of those types of prices?
[00:29:46] Jamie: Yeah, so, uh, we have in here the, uh, ability to filter by minimum stay requirement. So if a host says, I'm only gonna accept, uh, 30 plus days, or, [00:30:00] uh, 14 plus days, we could filter those out.
[00:30:03] Uh, but we don't have a way to filter for just certain types of stays. So, uh, we, and if someone allows anything, uh, to filter out their sort of, uh, if they did get a, a two month long built, uh, booking out of that,
[00:30:16] Mark: I guess it's same, same, just different way of saying it. So if you wanna say, yeah, I want a minimum of a, of a 14.
[00:30:23] Stay, for example.
[00:30:25] Jamie: Yep. And then we also have the ability to, uh, dig into specific, um, property managers. Uh, so if you wanted to get a sense of like other, uh, operators that have business, uh, types that and our business, uh, plans that you wanna copy Yeah. And get a sense of where they're operating and how they're doing.
[00:30:49] Um, and. . So you can go into our, our property manager section. Um, and you're gonna get a sense of, [00:31:00] and there's not a whole lot of property managers actually operating in leads. Uh, so we could add it, um, go more broad. Uh, but you're gonna get a sense of, um, so now we're rolling out to, um, more broadly in the uk, uh, who's operating, how many listings they.
[00:31:22] what is their sort of, um, typical operating performance. Uh, and then if we wanna maybe understand more broadly like where, um, certain ones are and how they're operating in those markets, uh, you could then filter by property manager, um, and see the markets that they're in and how they're
[00:31:43] Mark: performing. Oh, nice.
[00:31:44] So you could go right. Property manager. How. How many of their listings are in leads, for example, you can go, right. Well, let's just look at one and say, right. What's the competition in the area?
[00:31:54] Jamie: Yep. So let's say, I think, um, cottages.com was, was [00:32:00] they had ghost. Yeah, yeah. Uh, was big. So we could, uh, filter to cottages.
[00:32:10] Um,
[00:32:11] Mark: there it is on above
[00:32:12] Jamie: dha. Yep. And then apply. And now we're gonna see all the markets that, um, cottages.com is operating in. So it looks like their biggest and, um, looks like, um, over 400 listings and Devin Lake District, uh, Highland. But, um, and so you can see how that sort of manages out and then how they're performing in each of those markets.
[00:32:38] Mark: Wow. And this is something new built. Very cool. When is this being made available to all?
[00:32:46] Jamie: So this is, this is available now. Um, so we've actually have quite a few, uh, UK clients using it. Um, it sits at a, a. A higher price point, um, than our, our sort of standard [00:33:00] marketmind subscription is meant for more the professional investors, uh, large property management groups, um, OTAs sort of using it to, to, to better run their
[00:33:10] Mark: business.
[00:33:11] Is this like a bespoke, um, a bespoke price, et cetera? We have to contact Yeah.
[00:33:16] Jamie: But yeah, and, and mostly so that we can charge the large OTAs a whole lot more than we charge the average investor .
[00:33:24] Mark: Makes a, makes a lot of sense. But that was nice to give us a little sneak peek behind the scenes. Yeah. Um, that was lovely.
[00:33:30] Okay, so, um, the next question is 2021 2020 2022. There was the rise of last minute bookings for obvious reasons, like the lead between the booking, an arrival, um, got short and shot. from the date of it you've been looking at, and this could be, you know, air d n a wide, or it could be USA or UK specific. Yep.
[00:33:54] What is the data pointing towards for 2023 for the bookings that we've already [00:34:00] had? And, and I know the context is, you know, uh, we're, we're only a month in to 2023, but from everything that is being shown, say, let's say for the last, like, say three months, is, is that trend going to persist? Where people now are sort of, because digital nomads are.
[00:34:16] Prevalent, prominent. And you know, the more readily accessible people can work from anywhere now, doesn't matter if they've got an office job or not. Is that, is the data still pointing to that, where the lead, Jen, from the point of booking to the point of arrival is gonna stay kind of small? Or do you see more going back to 2018, 2019 levels, what's, what's sort of like the, the, the mystic meg sort of hat saying
[00:34:36] Jamie: them?
[00:34:36] Yeah. And the, the short answer is, is it doesn't look like it's getting back to 20 18, 20 19 levels. Uh, I. , if anything during peak season, we sort of see it getting, um, closer given that, and people were sort of training them that you got to book far ahead in advance to get and the sort of best locations, the best properties.
[00:34:59] Uh, [00:35:00] but I'm, I was just digging into the December numbers, which I'm in the US is and, and it's off season. Yeah. You get a quite a bit of bookings during sort of the Christmas holiday New Year's season, but it's still a. A pretty weak month. Um, not as weak as I'm, uh, uh, um, November or January. Uh, but booking lead times, just not even anywhere close to 20 18, 20 19 levels.
[00:35:30] So if the typical booking was coming in like a month ahead of time, um, so about a 28 day, uh, lead time. Uh, we are still seeing it two weeks, uh, further out. So about six, six, or. Two weeks. Uh, closer five days. Yeah, four and closer. Uh, so it, um, it would've been six weeks and now is only four weeks. Uh,
[00:35:53] Mark: as a business owner, I know if you're listening to this and if you're in the world of hospitality, you must be like going, oh my gosh, I just think you want a bit of [00:36:00] structure.
[00:36:00] You know, you, you're, so, but this is the, this is the thing. If you've just come into the market as of 2020, you're like, what are you complaining about? This is the norm. . But like anybody who was around in 2019 and below, you're very used to setting your dates in January. Putting out an email blast or whatever, getting your bookings coming in, and then you can plan ahead.
[00:36:17] But, you know, you have to adapt with the times and this is the new times. So I, I don't think anybody who was hoping for those 2018, 2019 sort of levels, um, you should be ready. And, and if you are, Listen to this. I'm watching this and you're a hundred percent booked already for 2023. Well, the signs there point to me that your prices are too low
[00:36:34] So do some about your prices maybe, uh, for 2024. Okay, so the next question, this is something close to my heart because I've been geeking out on this for at least the last six weeks, is the emergence of AI in G P T. I dunno if you've been up to date with this. I'm sure there's maybe conversations around AirDNA offices and Slack groups about it.
[00:36:54] But, um, is there anything you can share in terms of how Air d n a is looking to, [00:37:00] to sort of welcome this into the world? Is there anything that we could look forward to or are you just sort of going, it's just a fad and when we're not gonna pay attention to it, like what's the sort of, how can, can you share anything to this if you can?
[00:37:10] Yeah.
[00:37:11] Jamie: One is, and we're still investigating. Uh, one thing that I am sort of the part of the secret sauce of air d n a and how we've got to and where we are is we embraced s e o, uh, we embraced being and the number one search on Google, no matter what term you're looking at for , uh, that we wanna make sure we have the content that gets us number one.
[00:37:35] Uh, and we leaned into that from the beginning, and that's been a big part of our su success. So I can, we leverage it to help us generate content, uh, le help us generate content ideas. Uh, can we leverage it? And once people start using Che g p T to and find out I'm searches where they're, and they're gonna be leveraging, uh, I'm [00:38:00] sure they're already leveraging our data, our free content out there to.
[00:38:04] To generate responses. Uh, and then once they, and they're gonna have to start linking back to where they're getting these, um, um, answers from. I, I suspect we're gonna be, uh, pretty top of the list. Um, so to the extent that host operators, investors, Are looking to understand what's going in the short term rental industry.
[00:38:27] We wanna make sure we're number one. And to the extent that those type of people, uh, are leveraging chat g p t to get those answers, we wanna make sure that, um, they know it's coming from air d n a, then we, we know that they have tools and data to sort of support those decisions. Over and above what, um, these AI tools are gonna give them.
[00:38:48] Mark: Yeah, it's, it's very cool. I saw a video and this tool isn't available by all, it looks like somebody created it, but they, I think they went onto a site like Zillow, I think that's big in the states. Yeah. And they just typed in, um, find [00:39:00] me a reed property worth between 405, 500,000 that's got all these things.
[00:39:06] Um, and. Boom. Went to action and just spat out babababa boom. And I was like, wow. It just cuts the time of doing all of these things like, like, like crazy, like minutes. So it's, it's really interesting to see how every business, not just, you know, our business is like Bruce Lee and, and obviously our D n a, but how every business adapts, adapts to it because, uh, it's, uh, it's very powerful and whether we like it or not, it's gonna be our own for a while.
[00:39:30] Uh, which is, which is very cool. Last. . Um, there's been a debate going on and obviously you've been very connected to the, to the hotel world and obviously hotels haven't been performing as well since obviously. March, 2000 and and 20. But there's a, there's a, there's a comeback Hotels versus, uh, S T R hotels versus, uh, uh, Airbnb.
[00:39:50] Um, obviously it's been around, what are, what is the data showing? Are hotels back, are cruises back, or is it still very much s t l? Like, what's the sort of [00:40:00] data that you are seeing to sort of back up this hotels versus Airbnb, TikTok,
[00:40:05] Jamie: So we did a deep dive into the research with the big hotel provider, um, uh, , annoyingly named s t r, uh, , uh, making it more confusing to sort of report out the analysis, but, and the trend and yes, hotels are now, are, were growing and at a really strong pace in 2021, 2022, sort of catching up, uh, to the growth that short-term rentals had.
[00:40:33] From what I've seen in digging in, it is not sort of stealing away from short-term rentals. It is incremental improvement over and above what our industry already brought back in terms of going after leisure demand. Um, what has been coming back really strongly for hotels is business demand. It's group demand.
[00:40:52] And how many conferences did we go to in 2022 versus what we went to in 2021? And [00:41:00] I, I, I know for me it was a massively different year and most of those big conferences, we were all staying in hotels. Um, and not necessarily, uh, short-term rentals. Uh, and that not to say that you weren't still taking the trips you were doing in a short-term rental.
[00:41:16] It was, you were incrementally adding more trips in hotels, and that's broadly what we've been seeing a a around the world. Uh, so, and we've been looking at share shifts. So what is total paid accommodation demand, uh, and how does short-term rental demand and hotels play into? And broadly short-term rentals have been growing.
[00:41:39] Hotels have been growing. Uh, short-term rentals had been gaining about 2% of share a year up until the start of the pandemic during the pandemic. That really accelerated and for obvious reasons. Yeah. But in 2021, that came essentially backed [00:42:00] down to pre covid levels, and now we've only been growing at about 1% a.
[00:42:05] But we've still been growing at that 1% a year. Uh, so we're still pulling back, uh, demand from hotels just at a much slower rate than we had been doing pre covid and during Covid.
[00:42:17] Mark: Very interesting. Very, this has been an amazing conversation and I really appreciate you digging in and showing most importantly, uh, so please go check out what's the best domain for people to go to, to find out more about Air d n a to get.
[00:42:31] Jamie: Yeah, it's aird.co. Uh, and uh, we've got lots of tutorials there, uh, lots of free tools. So the overview page in our izer tool, uh, is free, uh, if you just create a login. Uh, and then, and obviously there, there's other paid tools, but love for everyone to just go and check it out and, and see what's there.
[00:42:53] Really
[00:42:53] Mark: appreciate it. Thank you very much. Everybody do go and check it out. Thank you very much for that. And we will be back very soon for [00:43:00] another. Having a blast. Gonna get it on the
[00:43:03] Jamie: Bruce Lee podcast, Bruce Lee. Let Bruce Lee cuz it's so hard on the tee, is loose leaf. Picking up those rhymes. Don't write it, just do it loosely.
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