[00:00:00] Liam: Welcome back to the Boostly Podcast. This is the podcast that gives you the tools, the tactics, the training, most of all the confidence to go out there and get direct bookings. Today I'm joined by Dustin Baker. He's the founder of Hidden Gem Media. He's a marketing expert who helps short term rental hosts, people like you who's listening to this, take control.
[00:00:18] Liam: Of their bookings and break free from the OTAs. And it's something that we're a big fan of, uh, Boostlyly is, is breaking free from those. So I could go into more background about Dustin. He, he's a previous guest. He's been on this podcast before and he always brings lots of gems. So strap in, enjoy this podcast and, uh, we'll get started.
[00:00:36] Liam: Welcome along, Dustin. Thank you for, uh, for joining me today. Yeah, thanks for having me, Liam. Always a pleasure to, to come on and chat. So. What do you want people to take away from this podcast?
[00:00:50] Dustin: Yeah, um, I would say. Yeah, if you have an experiential property, so a property that is, is really good at delivering on a particular experience, um, or has any sort of unique design that would cause it to stand out in videos on, on social media, you can really tap into a whole audience of, of people that aren't necessarily just searching on Airbnb.
[00:01:15] Dustin: And at the stage where they're ready to compare you against a whole bunch of other similar options, you can capture their attention on social media, uh, nurture those relationships through email marketing and then drive more direct bookings back through to your website. Uh, which as we know is, is really good for the business.
[00:01:31] Dustin: I.
[00:01:32] Liam: It sounds marvelous, and I'm, I'm excited to dig into this, but before we dig into it, although obviously we know each other and you've been a previous guest. For those of our listeners who don't know who you are, can you give a bit of background, um, what led you to start Hidden Gem Media and, uh, your expertise in general?
[00:01:51] Dustin: Yeah, so I've been doing marketing for about 10 years now. Uh, started in some other industries that are really sophisticated, like e-commerce and the app industry, and I was blown away by the techniques that were available, the strategies for being data-driven, uh, leveraging consumer psychology to market your business.
[00:02:11] Dustin: Which is such an important part to help you succeed over the competition. And so after kind of tapping out on, on what could be done in those industries, 'cause there's not that much room for more innovation, I set my sights on the vacation rental industry because it was up and coming. It was growing incredibly fast.
[00:02:28] Dustin: It's, it's evolving really fast. And I knew these marketing strategies would. Crush it so well with something that was so visually appealing, uh, emotionally resonating and mass appeal. Um, and so three years ago I started doing marketing for vacation rentals, uh, social media, email, paid ads, like the whole works.
[00:02:47] Dustin: And yeah, it evolved into starting a company called Hidden Gem Media. And now we're helping, I think over 35 hosts, uh, grow their, their brands and their direct bookings, uh, and get more bookings Yeah, directly for, for all the properties.
[00:03:01] Liam: That's very cool. And something which, like I say, we, we are big fans of here and I know when hosts come to us, they, they have a lot of different worries and a lot of different fears.
[00:03:12] Liam: But in your opinion, what is the biggest challenge faced by hosts when it comes down to moving away from Airbnb, vrbo, and, and, and booking.com? What's the biggest challenge to move away from OTAs in general?
[00:03:25] Dustin: Yeah, so it's definitely important to, to note that direct bookings require a lot of trust. Airbnb put a lot of effort into growing their brand and building that trust so that people can book Vacation Rental Getaways, which is a pretty expensive purchase.
[00:03:41] Dustin: It's takes a lot of planning, a lot of trust to take your family and friends to an unknown destination. And so when you go to Book Direct, you don't have that same trust right away. So you need to build trust through multiple touch points with the people who are gonna book, and you also have to display a really high level.
[00:04:00] Dustin: Of professional high quality design, um, so that people have the confidence to book directly with you. So, so the trust element there is, is one important element. And then also, of course, you need a really good marketing strategy that can reliably get high quality traffic from your ideal target audience to your website to book
[00:04:20] Liam: a hundred percent.
[00:04:21] Liam: And when we talk about trust, I mean, even. Um, it's, it's sometimes what, what they call it, sub, uh, subconscious, when you actually see these adverts on tell, and even I sit there and, and there was one great one over Christmas time that I was watching. I was like, oh my God, this, this is awesome. This is how I want to feel when I go away.
[00:04:38] Liam: And then it says Airbnb, and I'm like, ah, it's annoyed. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm annoyed they're so good at this, but ultimately, yeah. They are really good at it, and we do need to look at the way that they build trust. Now, I don't have millions of pounds to be able to build trust. So I guess that brings us on to, um, really what we have to do.
[00:04:55] Liam: I guess we have to make it part of our, our funnel. But, uh, what does your marketing strategy and, and, and from the experience you've got from marketing, how does that go into, uh, hidden Gem media? What, what is the kind of mm-hmm. Tips and tricks around that?
[00:05:12] Dustin: Yeah. Um, yeah, luckily even a small host with a couple of properties can, you know, build trust with an audience who's gonna book directly with them without needing millions of dollars in, in, you know, budget and advertising like Airbnb has.
[00:05:26] Dustin: Um, and what we've done to help this is really recognize that first, like social media is an incredible place to drive awareness. So to. Increase discovery from your ideal target audience and get them to discover, yeah, your property, your experience, what you have to offer, but then also realizing that's not enough to get people to book direct.
[00:05:48] Dustin: Um, you know, trust usually comes with touchpoints. Like it, it's not even so much that the Airbnb has amazing advertisements, it's just they show up so often and there's even been studies that show like you need. 10 or more touch points before a customer is willing to buy with you. And so after we raise discovery, um, on social media, we then make sure that all the people who are taking even more time, uh, showing more intent towards booking a stay at your property.
[00:06:20] Dustin: We want to try and capture their email addresses. Um, and, and give them the ability to make like a micro step past, you know, just liking your reel so that we can nurture that relationship. Give them emails that give more reasons to book. Uh, tell them more about your brand and your business, your, your destination.
[00:06:38] Dustin: I. And every single one of those are touch points that you can, uh, almost guarantee after they discover you on social media and really ensure that you're building the trust necessary for them to, to book direct.
[00:06:49] Liam: I see. So it's about those little steps. Um, bit by bit, and I think we should cover, some people will go, yeah, I know what a marking funnel is.
[00:06:57] Liam: Some will just go, well, what, what is a marketing funnel? Can you just talk us through what, what do we mean when we say marketing funnel?
[00:07:04] Dustin: Yeah, it, it almost sounds like a buzzword, but what it really means is we are recognizing that there's almost like three stages of moving somebody from discovery to purchase, uh, because it's an expensive purchase.
[00:07:18] Dustin: It's not like I. You're gonna see an ad for a water bottle and just, you know, spontaneously buy it on the spot. Uh, with this industry, we need to not just raise awareness, which would be your top of funnel, which is, you know, social media is the best at doing that, but you have to integrate those touch points with, you know, email marketing to build that trust with all the people who are willing to go further than just viewing that first reel.
[00:07:44] Dustin: So you want to, you know. Maximize quality awareness in the top of the funnel, capture and nurture, uh, all the people who are showing the most interest outta those top of the funnel people. Um, and build that relationship with them. And then you want to convert them in a, in the bottom of the funnel. And so it is like a bit of a trickle down effect.
[00:08:02] Dustin: You're gonna have the biggest, you know, reach at the top of the funnel and then of that, it's gonna get smaller. And then of course, the, the people who actually book a stay and, and, um, will be the smallest. But yeah, so that funnel process has allowed us to. Take, you know, a whole bunch of separate things like social media, email, marketing, paid ads, and put them together into a strategy that you know, actually drives results from the marketing.
[00:08:28] Liam: That's very cool. And it's one of those things where when you first get into a funnel in general, or when you first create a funnel, you've almost got to have gone through. A marketing funnel to know what, what they are. I mean, there's, there's this great big training company in the UK for, for property training.
[00:08:44] Liam: And I even, um, there was a chance to win something basically. So I, I put in for it and they announced the winner and they said, Hey, a few lucky people will be contacted. To get a ticket to this. And, uh, I got a call from them a day later. I was like, oh, I'm one of the lucky people. And that only occurred to me as I jumped off the phone.
[00:09:02] Liam: I went, oh my God, that's just a funnel. What they've done is they've had the advert, you know, on social, had the emails which go out, which obviously I signed up for, and now they've got me going to an event and you just go, oh, hang on, I'm in a funnel. But it's only because as a marketer, you know, like you, you recognize funnels and it's really important for everybody listening to this is that.
[00:09:22] Liam: We don't wanna be salesy as, as hosts, you know, nobody wants to feel salesy, but actually it's just, I think, like you say, giving them little tiny steps towards the next kind of thing that they want. And, uh, that's, that's what you're helping with. So, so I guess let's turn that around. What is one of the things that probably a common misconception which holds hosts back from doing direct bookings and, and from, from getting more success.
[00:09:48] Dustin: Yeah. Well. I think, uh, one of the biggest things I've seen is there's a lot of hosts who have realized that social media is an incredible place to raise awareness, um, and to, to reach new people outside of just Airbnb. But what they, I. Well, what a lot of people haven't realized is that you need a lot more than just people seeing like, you know, one or two reels to book directly with you.
[00:10:12] Dustin: So one of the common mistakes I see is they'll link their Airbnb listing in their Instagram bio and assuming that people are gonna go from browsing on social media to booking a stay. Um, and that's, yeah, the. If you look at like, you know, website traffic, Google Analytics, uh, the session length on that is gonna be so small.
[00:10:31] Dustin: The bounce rate is gonna be so high. Uh, they're really not in the frame of mind that they can just go straight through to making a booking. So yeah, making a landing page as, as a bit of a, a bridge to the website is, allows you to capture the email addresses. Send them a sequence of emails that is meant to build trust and give you the ability to also retarget them with Facebook ads.
[00:10:56] Dustin: Um, and then bridge that whole gap between awareness and and booking.
[00:11:01] Liam: I like the idea of that. What would you say is one thing? 'cause there will be people listening to this, just going, this sounds amazing, but I've, I've tried posting and, and like you say it, nothing's come of it. What is one thing that, uh.
[00:11:16] Liam: Somebody could do who's listening to this to really generate an impact and, and move the needle forward to start this process.
[00:11:25] Dustin: Yeah, so generally speaking, um, it all starts with driving more awareness through social media, especially if you're committing to, to this marketing funnel. Um, and to do that you have to start with really high quality footage.
[00:11:40] Dustin: Uh, you need video footage that captures the experience of your stay. Incredibly well. And, and to the tune of standing out, capturing people's attention on social media. Stop them from scrolling. Get them to wanna like, comment, share with their, their friends. Uh, this is kind of where it all starts. And the best place to do that is I.
[00:12:02] Dustin: You know, partner up with a content creator or influencer who can create that incredible footage, collaborate with them, get them to send you, you know, those video clips. And then you can use those, those videos to now post on your, your own page. Uh, and that's essentially how you'd start the top of the funnel.
[00:12:20] Liam: That's good. So get some assets in place first. And like you say, I mean, the thought of me going to stay in one of the places and taking, you know, good footage or, or running the bath and setting a glass of wine, that's just not, that's just not me. Do you know what I mean? But having somebody come in who is, uh, that's what they do.
[00:12:36] Liam: They're creating content and so you're saying make sure there's an agreement beforehand, that you get the assets, you get the, the photos and stuff like that. And then like. You can then use that as many times as you want, which is a really cool idea. So, um, definitely one I'm gonna pop down on my list and, um, hopefully people listening to this will, will do so too.
[00:12:55] Liam: So how important is email marketing? This is something which we talk a lot about, app Boostly lead, but at what stage do they move from kind of the, the social media to the email and how easy is it to get their details to, to start doing this?
[00:13:13] Dustin: Yeah, no, that again, yeah, that was one of the biggest changes, uh, that drove such a massive difference in results from just posting on social media to posting on social media, but making the core next step that you point everybody to is to sign up for the email list.
[00:13:30] Dustin: So we actually incentivize it. Pretty heavily with a core offer. And we set this up for every one of the businesses where you incentivize them past just signing up for your email list. Uh, no one wants to subscribe to a newsletter. Um, it, it essentially doesn't happen anymore. So your Optum rate would be so low, but if you give them an incentive, like.
[00:13:51] Dustin: Uh, get $50 off your first day or a hundred dollars off your first day, or even 10% off your first day, that is going to drastically increase the amount of people who go from discovering you on social media to signing up for your email list. And then from there, we typically do email marketing in two different ways.
[00:14:08] Dustin: One is a set and forget automated sequence. So the second somebody signs up your email list, they're gonna automatically get around eight to 10 emails over the next few weeks that are just based on like a timed interval. And these emails are just designed to build trust. So they're, they're warming your audience, they're getting touch points.
[00:14:29] Dustin: Uh, they're not too salesy. They're, they're just. You know, foundation in your brand, giving them a reason of like, you know, what makes you different and unique. Um, you know, hear from some of your best guest reviews, uh, FAQ, things like that. And that's like the, the nurture sequence that builds trust, uh, warms them up.
[00:14:48] Dustin: And then we do email campaigns after that, which would be every single week. Looking at your calendar and deciding which properties have the. You know, best opportunity to run, you know, like a promotion or a campaign on, um, you know, based on the booking lead time in your Price Labs dashboard. And then we'll take that information, create an email campaign that calls out, you know, maybe like, you know, spring 10% off book now and, you know, uh, and really incentivizes them to take action.
[00:15:18] Dustin: So that would be like a bottom of the funnel step. Mm-hmm.
[00:15:21] Liam: That, um, that email side of things, I, I think that so many hosts just think of when they send an email, they're just gonna send special offers. Hey, I've got last minute availability. Hey, I've got last minute availability. But what you're saying there is to build up a, a trust and a nurture kind of funnel.
[00:15:38] Liam: And it just makes so much sense, right? I mean, I don't, uh, nobody, um, goes home on the first date. Do you know what I mean? Like, so it is, you might need a few of those emails, uh, to be able to get that person to then trust you and then you can start to present more salesy stuff. And it, again, it's, it's just getting that balance, isn't it?
[00:15:57] Liam: I, I know from email lists that I subscribe to from other hosts, and I subscribe to a lot because I'm interested to see what they're doing. And actually some of the time is some of the funny stuff, um, that they do. And, and sometimes they're just like, Hey, if you ever stay here, here's the local lingo. And I read it just because it is interesting.
[00:16:17] Liam: And then afterwards they'll be like, and if you do wanna book a stay, you can come along and it's just like, oh, that's, I've learnt something. I've got some value from this. Um. You know, and, and it's interesting, you know, that, and, and stories sell as well, don't they, just by telling the story of how you got started or, uh, story of a great day out that you've had in your local area.
[00:16:38] Liam: One of the people, um, we talked about events just before we, we started recording and, and Bill Faith, um, his email list, if you're not on it, it's worth going on his email list because he often tells stories and that's exactly that kind of build and trust. Uh, you, you, you're getting something. From it. Yeah.
[00:16:55] Liam: As, as, as you read. Um, uh, and then there's always a sale, there's always a call to action in there. Yeah. So, just briefly on, on that same point, what tools do you need in place as a host? If I'm sitting there just going, well, I've, I've, I've got my basics. I'm on Airbnb. I might have 'em a PMS, but how, where do I put somebody's email?
[00:17:15] Liam: And do I need a tool to get started? Or can I start collecting emails like today? Yeah.
[00:17:20] Dustin: No, for sure. Um, for the email marketing in general and, and having a, a pipeline that you can, you know, track people going through, uh, this is commonly used, um, like with A-A-C-R-M, so. Customer relationship management tool.
[00:17:36] Dustin: And it's a software that allows you to capture, like put your, your forms up on your landing pages, your website, that, that get people's email address, uh, store those contacts, tag them based on where they came in and what they were interested in. Uh, and then send out email marketing campaigns, whether it's an automation or a one-off campaign to, you know, a section of your audience.
[00:17:58] Dustin: Um, but yeah, so these, these CRMs are incredibly valuable. Uh, the one we use is go high level, so also similar to, to Bill Faith's. And I think you guys, you know, push that as well. It's an amazing tool that is so robust and has so many different features. And yes, we'll use that for, for email marketing, but also like a unified inbox creating automations, um, attributions so many things.
[00:18:22] Liam: That's very cool. And yeah, I'm a big fan of go high level. I didn't even know that or didn't know it existed two years ago and now I'm like, it's a tool, which I was in about an hour before we started recording this, you know, like it's something which you suddenly use all the time and when As as hosts, obviously we don't get huge amount of time to learn new tools, but this is definitely one to just spend one hour researching, looking into and just seeing how it can help your business.
[00:18:48] Liam: 'cause since having this tool. Uh, it allows me to track opportunities much better. Um, email, social media, all that kind of stuff. And I always liken the go high level 'cause there will be some people you just go and search, go high level, but I. The, the, the thing that went go high level, so cool, is you can have customizable, um, it, it's like buying a, a chassis of a car and then putting your own engine engine into it.
[00:19:14] Liam: You can really make it your own, which is why, um, if you're listening to this thinking, I, I wanna check out, um, go high level beforehand, you know, definitely go and check out, uh, hidden, hidden Gem Media and, and because this is the tools that, um, we, we've personalized and, and Brucely have got their own personal one.
[00:19:32] Liam: Bill's got his, you know, like. Ultimately, it's how you personalize it, isn't it? Which, which makes it, makes it amazing. So I think we should, um, come on to, uh, hidden Gem Media in in general now, and just talk more broadly. What are some of the services that, um, that you offer and how does it solve the pain points for the, the people who are listening?
[00:19:57] Dustin: So our whole goal is, um, most of the hosts that come to us, they have a lot of different Airbnb listings. Um, but they have, you know, essentially the, the foundation or the, the beginnings of a brand that they want to grow. So maybe they've named their properties, they've created a bit of a logo, um, and then they wanna start growing like the, the direct booking side of the business.
[00:20:20] Dustin: There's a lot of things when we talk about this marketing funnel that you have to set up. In the very beginning to even be able to do it effectively, just like the CRM for example, and then having that set up in a way where it's truly gonna be effective. So the first thing we typically do with, you know, vacation rental businesses is, you know, solidify the brand.
[00:20:40] Dustin: Create like an entire brand kit. Make sure to exactly, you know, behind like what they want to grow and envision for their future of their, their company. Um, and then on top of that, we set up the CRM. And, and everything that would go into that. Connecting the Facebook pixel, um, setting up attribution, uh, with their PMS and, you know, so many different things that are gonna make it like really helpful.
[00:21:04] Dustin: And then we optimize their Instagram page with the branding, uh, create email templates and flows, essentially. Yeah. Set up all the things that would go into setting up this marketing funnel. And then from there you have that in your business now for, you know. That can stick with you, and then you can manage your marketing on an ongoing basis.
[00:21:24] Dustin: So you can post high quality content on social media, send out email campaigns, run Facebook ads, and drive people back to the direct booking website. Um, yeah.
[00:21:34] Liam: It's very cool. It sounds like it, it, it gets you really, uh, into the place where you need to be to really focus on your business, producing some content and getting some attention on your, on your brand.
[00:21:45] Liam: And this is where so many people, I was speaking to a host earlier on today and he was like, I. Ah, you know, I, I just don't know how to get started with, with direct bookings and it's just like, well, you've, you know, first of all, you've come to the right place, listen to the podcast, dive into the communities, ask lots of questions.
[00:22:01] Liam: The fact that he's even thinking about direct bookings puts him ahead of others, and people listening to this, the fact that you're, you're, you're thinking about direct bookings will push your business ahead. But this is where having, uh, that fast track, like you say of of where you can go to a service and to have this done actually gets you so much further ahead.
[00:22:19] Liam: So, um, what I think would be cool now then, uh, Dustin is if, if you share how we can come and find out more about Hidden Gem Media and then I'm gonna pack in a couple of gems of questions for the end. So, uh, people stick away to the end. Uh, stick around to the end.
[00:22:37] Dustin: Yeah, sure. Um. Yeah, so anyone interested?
[00:22:40] Dustin: Uh, it's important to note, like right now, um, we're mostly working with clients in the North America. Um, and yeah, if you have like an experiential business that, you know, offers an experience past, just a place to stay, um. Then yeah, you can go to our website, hidden Gem Media, hidden Gem Media and apply to have a call with me.
[00:23:03] Dustin: So it's just a short couple of questions that let us know about your business and then get on a call and, and essentially just explain exactly what we do to get you from being reliant on Airbnb to growing your own brand in direct bookings.
[00:23:16] Liam: Very cool. And the links will be somewhere around this piece of media, if it's on the YouTube or or on the podcast.
[00:23:23] Liam: Click as soon as it's safe to do so on that link, and go and check out the website there. So last couple of questions for you, Dustin, is what is one mistake that people listening to this can avoid right now with their marketing? What should they stop doing?
[00:23:40] Dustin: Um, yeah. One thing I would caution away from, unless you really know how to approach it well, is influencer marketing.
[00:23:49] Dustin: Um, especially like to, you know, to the tune of like reaching out to these 300,000 follower. I. Uh, accounts, um, where they propose, you know, three to $4,000 on a single post, uh, that's supposedly gonna get you this massive return and, and huge virality and, and, and influx. We've had very limited success when it comes to influencer marketing.
[00:24:12] Dustin: There's a couple really talented. Influencers who have a quality audience, um, and they can drive a lot of awareness, but for the most part, it tends to be a bit more missed than, than hit. Uh, what we found is if you want to reach more people, which is essentially what an influencer helps you do, um, I would rather.
[00:24:32] Dustin: Pay a fraction of that and tell Facebook exactly who my audience is and just run ads to reach those people directly, uh, and know that I'm gonna reach those people with a clear call to action to book now. Um, and then you can track every step of the process and ensure that you're actually getting a high ROI as opposed to kind of crossing your fingers on a.
[00:24:53] Dustin: On a collaboration.
[00:24:54] Liam: Very cool. Very cool indeed. And we've mentioned, obviously ads and Facebook pickles. I know there's so much more we we could dive into, but what is one marketing trend right now as, as we record this, we're, we're in spring of 2025. What's one thing that everyone should go and do straight after this podcast?
[00:25:12] Dustin: Yeah. Um, yeah, if you're a host, like the cool thing about really tapping into marketing and branding is it allows you to get such a, a larger ROI on just the design and amenities of your property. I. So we've seen this with, with some of our clients where, you know, if you have a great property that is very instagramable and videos well and has a great experience, uh, you'll see incredible results with this marketing.
[00:25:37] Dustin: But then if you go further and you add, you know, string lights to your backyard and then a barrel sauna and any feature that's gonna further, um, showcase that experience that you're offering even better, and then add to it, it only amplifies the marketing. You know, that much more. Um, and so looking at the accounts that are, they're doing really well on, on Instagram, uh, seeing the, the design that they have, the amenities, the experience that they're offering, and then looking at your own properties and, and thinking of like how you can, uh, add this as well and kind of pull some of that inspiration is yeah, a great way to, to level up your design and your, your offer.
[00:26:16] Dustin: Um, which is only gonna get better results from, from the marketing.
[00:26:19] Liam: That's very cool. Well, Dustin, thank you so much. I know there's so much more we can cover. We try and keep these episodes a rough time of uh uh. Car journey or something like that. But um, in a moment I'm just gonna ask if there's anything else you want to leave our listeners with.
[00:26:33] Liam: But just before we do that, I'm just gonna mention that if you want to come and carry on this conversation that you've learned about in this podcast, you can go and join the Facebook group, which is free to join. It's called The Hospitality Community. And you can come and talk about this episode or any other hospitality things you like.
[00:26:48] Liam: And, uh, we'll definitely continue the chat in there. Dustin, I believe, is in there as well. You can tag me in there, Liam Caran. And we're happy to answer your questions about this podcast. Um, we'll share that link again around the media. But Dustin, what, uh, would you like to leave our listeners with? Any kind of, uh, last thoughts or anything we missed along the way?
[00:27:09] Dustin: Um, yeah. One thing I'll say is if you go to either the website or even my own Instagram page, uh, you know, we mentioned the marketing funnel a lot. There's a lot to it, and it, and it can be confusing, but I did record a masterclass video. It's like 20 minutes long, really condensed and it really helps explain these things in, in greater detail.
[00:27:29] Dustin: So anyone kind of curious, and this is like peaking their interest, but they didn't quite fully grasp what we were. Talk it about, uh, I think that video would really help, uh, give the clarity on exactly how this works.
[00:27:40] Liam: Very cool. So go and check out that free video. And the other things I got from this is don't go and use, uh, influencers, especially the ones that message you saying they can, you know, they can do X and Y for your business often on, on Instagram.
[00:27:53] Liam: Do go out there and find somebody who can record some really good content in your properties and ultimately just get started. At the end of the day, if you've got a place which is Instagramable and cool, reach out to Hidden Gem Media, reach out to Dustin and, um, go and get this done with the, the, the powers in our hands, isn't it?
[00:28:09] Liam: So, uh, thank you so much, Dustin, for, for joining us on the Brucely podcast. Uh, we hope you've got some value from listening to this and we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. Having a blast. Gonna get it on the Boostly podcast. Boostly. Let Bruce Lee 'cause it's so hard on the tee is loosely making up those rhymes.
[00:28:26] Liam: Don't write it, just do it loosely. I.
